Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ECrownofFire]

Can even you yourself describe his views on race as anything other then fringe?  That video I just posted?  His long (and close) association with white supremacist groups?

Do you have anything to support this?

[Lysabild]

He wants to end federal funding for education, healthcare and retirement in the US.  Are you sure that you are a red-green socialist?

I think my actual paid membership of Enhedslisten, not to mention my vote on them, puts little doubt on my political stance, however, if I was to choose between the republican candidates, which is the context I posted in, I'd choose him for the slight percentage of sense he makes compared to the others.

[mainiac]

Can even you yourself describe his views on race as anything other then fringe?  That video I just posted?  His long (and close) association with white supremacist groups?

Do you have anything to support this?

The video I posted where he said that the civil war was about states rights and lincoln was a tyrant and that the CSA derrived consent from the governed?

The white supremacist newletter that was published in his name for a decade?

[ECrownofFire]

Can even you yourself describe his views on race as anything other then fringe?  That video I just posted?  His long (and close) association with white supremacist groups?

Do you have anything to support this?

The video I posted where he said that the civil war was about states rights and lincoln was a tyrant and that the CSA derrived consent from the governed?

The white supremacist newletter that was published in his name for a decade?

The Civil War WAS about state's rights. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say a state does not have the right to secede. It's not exactly a fringe belief either. Lincoln himself said that he had "...no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." (This is from his first inaugural address) Lincoln believed that states did not have the right to secede (stated several times in the speech).

Also, that newsletter thing has kind of blown over now. I'll just leave it at that.

[mainiac]

Can even you yourself describe his views on race as anything other then fringe?  That video I just posted?  His long (and close) association with white supremacist groups?

Do you have anything to support this?

The video I posted where he said that the civil war was about states rights and lincoln was a tyrant and that the CSA derrived consent from the governed?

The white supremacist newletter that was published in his name for a decade?

The Civil War WAS about state's rights. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say a state does not have the right to secede. It's not exactly a fringe belief either. Lincoln himself said that he had "...no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." (This is from his first inaugural address) Lincoln believed that states did not have the right to secede (stated several times in the speech).

Also, that newsletter thing has kind of blown over now. I'll just leave it at that.

Well you are clearly well informed.

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." -Alexander Stephens

But what did he know?  He was just the vice president of the CSA.  That country where every leading politician and general owned slaves.  The same country that invaded northern territory and abducted free citizens and enslaved them.  The same country that we are still waiting, 161 years later, to find out just what those "states rights" were other then slavery.

If you think the newsletter controversy wouldn't come up in a general election you are amazingly naive and I will leave it at that.

[ECrownofFire]

That's the reason the CSA seceded, not the reason the war started.

[mainiac]

Pro-tip, if supporting a candidacy means that the racist nature of the CSA even needs to be debated, the candidate is controversial.

[ECrownofFire]

I'm not debating the CSA's racism, that's pretty fucking obvious.

[mainiac]

So when Ron Paul stands in front of a confederate flag and tries to exonerate the south that makes him... ironic?

[RedKing]

Okay, let's all amplify our relaxed states, shall we?

I think it's fair to say that Paul has some well-documented baggage in this area. No need to rehash it here. Paul supporters will fervently deny that he had anything to do with the newsletters, while detractors will just as fervently claim that they're a roadmap to his inner psyche. Neither is exactly accurate, and frankly we're never going to know unless he in fact does become President and calls for establishing apartheid or some shit.

The Civil War is something that is quite open to interpretation, and states' rights was a large factor in it. And it's hardly a fringe view to consider Lincoln a tyrant. Even supporters of the man (such as myself) will admit that he broke a lot of rules in the name of the greater good. Suspension of habeas corpus, for example. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a tyrant, but then I am perhaps more circumspect than some.


Ron Paul has some ideas that appeal to the Left (ending foreign adventurism, reducing the military budget, anti-globalism) but on even a cursory inspection, this isn't because he's a liberal or even a moderate. He's an isolationist paleoconservative in the Pat Buchanan/Ross Perot mold. His answer to the challenges America faces in a multi-lateral, globalized world would essentially be to pull up the drawbridge and fix our own shit. Which is going to resonate with a lot of people who wonder why we're sending billions in foreign aid overseas at a time when they can't find work, the national infrastructure is crumbling, and the government is seemingly broke.

Problem is, autarchy didn't work in the 19th century, and it sure as hell doesn't work in the 21st. We need the rest of the world. We need them to buy our shit, we need them to make shit for us, and most importantly we need them to bankroll our government until we get some kind of handle on our budgetary woes.

[mainiac]

while detractors will just as fervently claim that they're a roadmap to his inner psyche

We will?

Which is going to resonate with a lot of people who wonder why we're sending billions in foreign aid overseas at a time when they can't find work

So it's going to resonate with people with people who don't know that it's less then %1 of the budget?

The Civil War is something that is quite open to interpretation, and states' rights was a large factor in it.

In the same way that global warming or evolution is.

[ECrownofFire]

The Civil War is something that is quite open to interpretation, and states' rights was a large factor in it.

In the same way that global warming or evolution is.

Now you're just being an idiot and completely ignoring the facts.

And Ron Paul's not fucking defending the slavery.

[mainiac]

The Civil War is something that is quite open to interpretation, and states' rights was a large factor in it.

In the same way that global warming or evolution is.

Now you're just being an idiot and completely ignoring the facts.

So supporting your candidate requires someone to consider the dominant view about the civil war to be idiotic and completely ignorant.  Really uncontroversial guy here.  He just radiates with non-controversy.

For how many candidates is this sort of thing even an issue?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So it's going to resonate with people with people who don't know that it's less then %1 of the budget?

That's pretty much everyone, really. If there's any aspect of government spending that inevitably gets blown out of proportion it's giving money to foreigners. One of the more common figures that comes up in surveys about aid is 25% of the overall budget.

The Civil War is something that is quite open to interpretation, and states' rights was a large factor in it.

In the same way that global warming or evolution is.

While I'm sure you love your popular culture history that says the Civil War happened because everyone in the South was an evil slavemaster who wanted to be able to oppress black people in peace, reality just isn't that simple. 

[mainiac]

While I'm sure you love your popular culture history that says the Civil War happened because everyone in the South was an evil slavemaster who wanted to be able to oppress black people in peace, reality just isn't that simple.

No, I like my history where I read the southern declarations of independence and every one of them that listed a reason said slavery.

You ever read the various state declarations of independence?  Please do so, it's illuminating.

But please, continue to look down on me because the "reasonable" position always lies in the middle, ftw.

Have a link: http://www.civil-war.net/pages/ordinances_secession.asp