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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 768881 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #345 on: January 04, 2012, 10:05:50 am »

Not really. Even in a Parliamentary system, the top PM candidate is generally known before the election. If the Tories in England decided to pick a complete and utter rotter as their man for PM, you can't tell me Labour wouldn't be thrilled.
Well in pretty much every case you have to have been at least a Minister or Shadow Minister before you get voted to the top spot.  So anyone who's completely and utterly crazy would have probably had a career wrecking scandal long before they could go anywhere near the vote for their party leadership.  I mean, not that the results are necessarily great, but I don't think we see anyone on Michelle Bachman levels running for party leadership here.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #346 on: January 04, 2012, 10:58:51 am »

Word is out that Bachmann is holding a press conference in a few minutes to announce she's "suspending" (i.e. quitting) her campaign. Guess I was right after all.


EDIT: A friend of mine theorizes this was all mainly to raise her profile in order to make a run at the House Speaker's seat after the November election. She's trying to make a name as the Anti-Boehner. As he so eloquently puts it, "If she gets a Republican president in Romney, she can drag him right. If she gets President Obama again, she is perfectly positioned to gnaw on his dangly bits for a couple of years and make another run."
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:03:55 am by RedKing »
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Andrew425

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #347 on: January 04, 2012, 11:25:23 am »

I'm listening to Bachmann talk, and it's making my head hurt

And she's out!

Yay!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:29:59 am by Andrew425 »
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Nadaka

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #348 on: January 04, 2012, 11:32:48 am »

Redking... That Bachman/Obama imagery was disturbing.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #349 on: January 04, 2012, 11:38:56 am »

You'd have to know this friend. It's the sort of imagery he revels in.

Just think...whatever imagery he comes up with that involves Santorum is likely to be far, far more disturbing.



And then there were six: Santorum, Romney, Paul, Gingrich, Huntsman and Roemer. Okay, so really there were four.

Santorum: The social conservative with a poor fiscal conservative record.
Romney: The fiscal conservative with a poor social conservative record.
Paul: The pseudo-libertarian with the WTF record.
Gingrich: Yeah, I don't even know how to classify Newt. The guy who thinks he's the diehard conservative, even as most GOP'pers don't want to touch him and his baggage with a ten-foot-pole?

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palsch

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #350 on: January 04, 2012, 12:18:55 pm »

Got to love the endorsement game.
Quote
“I am a Newt Gingrich fan partially because he models resurrection to me. He has been married three times, he has gone through his own infidelity, his own growth process, and his own repentance and renewal of faith so I trust him because of that,” Haggard told FOX 411.
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Aqizzar

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #351 on: January 04, 2012, 12:39:27 pm »

Holy crap, an endorsement by Ted Haggard?  Yeah, somebody put him up to that to tank Gingrich.  Why I don't know, because he's probably tanked now anyway.


Okay, I updated the OP.  Breaking news: reversing everyone's predictions, Michele Bachmann drops out of the race, while Rick Perry stays in.  No word yet on who she'll endorse, but if she's any kind of savvy (debatable) she'll wait until the last possible minute to lend her "support" to whoever's probably going to win anyway and then claim credit for it, because that's what you try to do.

Also, Newt Gingrich is burning the ground Romney walks on, by hand instead of by PAC.  See you in New Hampshire kids.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #352 on: January 04, 2012, 01:14:10 pm »

Got to love the endorsement game.
Quote
“I am a Newt Gingrich fan partially because he models resurrection to me. He has been married three times, he has gone through his own infidelity, his own growth process, and his own repentance and renewal of faith so I trust him because of that,” Haggard told FOX 411.

HA! He's been married three times and cheated at least once. JUST LIKE JESUS.  ::)
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Aqizzar

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #353 on: January 04, 2012, 02:11:09 pm »

John McCain at this moment is endorsing Mitt Romney in New Hampshire - sometimes being a maverick means dancing on your own grave.  McCain of course won the New Hampshire primary in 2008 and 2000, and he's John McCain.  So there's that.



Apparently, I was originally mistaken about how much ad-money was spent in Iowa.  I originally heard that it was $17Million by Romney and about $30Million total.  Apparently either I wildly misheard something, or there's a crapload of money out there I can't find documentation of.  I'm leaning towards me being wrong.

With that, it was about $17Million total, and numerically, it was Rick Perry who spent the most money (hence the $480 for every one of his thirteen thousand votes), not Romney, and it didn't work for him.  Historically, whoever spends the most wins stuff, but Iowa was completely flipped around in terms of dollars-per-vote, especially with Santorum's breakout near-win.


I said earlier that I was investing a lot of prediction in how Santorum described the likely results in December, that the primary would really be a contest between the different wings of the Republican party (something I've been saying for years).  It's not about ideological competition between them, they all mostly adhere to the same general notions of conservatism, so much as competing over who gets to drive.  You have the Executives (Gingrich, Huntsmann, Romney), the Culturals (Bachmann, Perry, Santorum), and the Libertarians (Paul).

Especially with Romney being the focal point of the race this whole time, as the guy everyone was competing to prove they could beat, the Cultural wing adopted a lot of support from Republicans in general who didn't want Romney.  The real question will be whether the general voting number in each wing will gravitate to one candidate as people peal out of the race.  With Bachmann out completely and Perry looking like he'll quit if he doesn't come back strong in South Carolina, it's possible Santorum will pick up their supporters, since he's offering practically the same ideological platform.  Certainly anyone who voted or would vote for Bachmann for instance would be much more inclined to Santorum than Romney.

The other question is the money - Santorum achieved a statistical tie with a little over 10% of Romney's money.  Then again, Romney barely acknowledged Iowa until right before the end, while Santorum had been living there for almost two months.  Within their Cultural league, Bachmann had pocket change while Perry spent piles of cash, mostly direct from his campaign.  Obviously, Santorum can't repeat the shoe-string campaign he made in Iowa elsewhere, because there's only so many days in a week for him to live in a state.

So the question becomes, will support aggregate over time?  Will his darkhorse near-victory in Iowa give Santorum the recognition and credential he needs to get the attention of Cultural Republican voters in the next few states, and suggest that he's the good bet over Perry?  And if that happens, will he gain Perry's money inflow as the would-be Perry supporters move towards him in votes?

The same question is on the Executive side.  If Gingrich flames out in a hurry, as he looks likely to do, will his support in votes and money go towards Romney?  How much of the Gingrich faction would prefer a Cultural candidate over Romney?

Provided Santorum doesn't completely disappear in the next couple states, certainly if he gets a good showing in South Carolina, this could easily become a two-man race by the end of January as the two major wings of the Republican party line up behind the last choices they've been given.  Three-man race if you want to be generous to Ron Paul, who is at least in the running for once, I have to give him credit.  I think the real question is what will happen to the money stream, since there's an awful lot of Republicans who would take absolutely anybody over Romney (even a few people in the editorial-column intelligentsia saying they'd rather have four more years to beat up Obama than have a Romney Presidency), while apparently most of the Super PAC money (being mostly business money) is going towards the only Executive who looks like he could win.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:13:27 pm by Aqizzar »
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MonkeyHead

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #354 on: January 04, 2012, 02:24:36 pm »

Probably not for the first time, the problem with a 2 party system seems to be that within that party, there is a lot of room for political opinions of a wide ranging spectrum, which probably isnt that good a thing for a coheisve or united approach.

RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #355 on: January 04, 2012, 02:30:23 pm »

Okay--looking at that money graph, I'm totally onboard with my buddy's analysis that Bachmann was just in this for the lulz and to get her name out there in order to get something else. Even though she was behind 4-to-1 in fundraising, she raised $3+ million in the last quarter and only spent $24,000 in the entire first race, the state of her birth???


So...really, what I should be hoping for is for Gingrich to hang around a good long while to deny Romney those resources, while Santorum absorbs the defeated armies of Perry and Bachmann, and this turns into a 3-way Mexican standoff down the line. End result, whoever gets the nom only has about 33% support across his own party's base, which he'd have to pull up by a good 20-40% before the general election and then generate good turnout from a fractured and less-than-enthused base.

Then again, who knows? Early on in 2008, it looked like Clinton was the heir apparent and the GOP was going to knife-fight until August. Then suddenly McCain wrapped it up and the Dem race became the never-ending Bataan death march to the White House (thank you Daily Show for the metaphor). Smart money said that the long and bitter primary fight benefitted the GOP, but it didn't.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:36:21 pm by RedKing »
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Aqizzar

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #356 on: January 04, 2012, 03:01:39 pm »

Then again, who knows? Early on in 2008, it looked like Clinton was the heir apparent and the GOP was going to knife-fight until August. Then suddenly McCain wrapped it up and the Dem race became the never-ending Bataan death march to the White House (thank you Daily Show for the metaphor). Smart money said that the long and bitter primary fight benefitted the GOP, but it didn't.

Mostly because people don't care that much about primaries.  At their best, you're looking at 15% turnout, and this time around it will be inherently lower since there's no real Democratic primary.  Then again, the Iowa Republican turnout wasn't particularly great, even with acknowledged Democrats turning up to pick a Republican candidate.

The main reason why the 2008 Republican primary was so locked down after actual votes started being cast was that it was a winner-take-all delegation.  Once McCain started winning a few populous states, he picked up from there and it was pretty much over by the end of February.  Apparently in recognition of that, the Republican party switched to a proportional system, so even though Romney just won Iowa by eight votes, he and Santorum will have the same number of delegates (I understand anyway, it certainly won't be a difference of more than one).  So this thing just keep dragging on, depending on how close each state is.

The 2008 Democratic primary wasn't as extraordinary as it may have looked, historically.  The 1988 and 2004 Democratic primaries were the same way, where a bunch of guys were knife-fighting all the way into summer before the party leadership used the Super Delegates to coronate the long-time party man.  Apparently, Clinton was behind by enough in 2008 that they managed to convince the system to take a gamble with Obama for once.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #357 on: January 04, 2012, 03:11:49 pm »

I don't remember 2004 being that close, but okay. Kerry had it wrapped up after he crushed Edwards on Super Tuesday in early March, but he'd already been kind of the heir-apparent for a while. I distinctly remember detaching with disgust from the political sites I was on at the time, remarking that the Democrats had just given George Bush another four years (in the interest of full disclosure, I supported Dean, then Clark, then threw up my hands because I didn't like Kerry or Edwards).


Didn't realize the bit about the GOP going full-on proportional. So this thing could really drag out?
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I'm really bummed nobody is publishing a list of the 117 "Other" votes. I want to see what sort of hilarity ensued. (For instance, how many votes for Cthulhu?)
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Nadaka

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #358 on: January 04, 2012, 03:28:23 pm »

It is wrong for me to proselytize Gary Johnson to the libertarians I know even if I don't approve of him based on his economic policies?
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #359 on: January 04, 2012, 03:41:38 pm »

It is wrong for me to proselytize Gary Johnson to the libertarians I know even if I don't approve of him based on his economic policies?
That's a matter between you and Ayn Rand's vengeful ghost.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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