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[Mictlantecuhtli]

Blind, seething hatred I would be willing to chalk up to bigotry. Disagreeing with his policies I would not.

But, that's the issue with alot of people I know. They disagree with his policies simply on the fact that they do not like him [for the aforementioned reasons, bigotry would be a better way to summarize it] which bothers me more than simple bigotry, since they think they're the ones who should be voting and making decisions on who runs what, when they obviously have no goddamn idea what/why/how to disagree with someone without making it a personal issue.

[Mr. Palau]

I think it depends on where in the country you live, in terms of why people dislike/like Obama. Most of the people I know in NY dislike Obama because he is too liberal on the economy.

Some of my family in the midwest however hate Obama because he is black. Some of my family and freinds in Michigan hate him because he doesn't stand up for their religious priniciples.

[kaijyuu]

It's still a bit silly to chalk it all up to race. You're conflating any sort of personal attack against him as racism, which is frankly ridiculous. There are plently of other really damn stupid reasons for not liking him other than racism; assuming it's the most obvious (and easiest to attack!) is a classic strawman.

I shouldn't need to qualify this but since I'll get attacked otherwise: obviously yes there are plenty of racists out there who hate him due to race. It's just far, far from every republican who dislikes him as a person.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Hey, thanks for pointing out a point that needed no explanation as that wasn't what I was arguing.

[kaijyuu]

*goes back and reads*


Oops. Yep. Well replace every instance of the word "race" with "incorrectly calling him a Muslim" and there ya go

[Mictlantecuhtli]

*goes back and reads*


Oops. Yep. Well replace every instance of the word "race" with "incorrectly calling him a Muslim" and there ya go

I'm talking about how the bigotry is usually thinly veiled under vague economic policy attacks that people really have no idea what the hell they're spewing when they say things like that. It just grinds my gears to see Ad campaigns like the one I listed before, which are obviously racially charged and motivated. Nowhere did I say every republican who happens to be white is a racist, just a disparagingly large amount of them seem to be more scared of the fact that he's not white and happens to not be a rightwing nutjob, so it gives them more motivation to just hate him for no reason other than superficial reasons.

[kaijyuu]

People believing shallow propaganda seems a fact of life nowadays. And personally, I think it's far more politically motivated than anything; the racial and religious undercurrents are just to appeal to the racists and bigots out there. If Obama was a white caucasian who grew up in Kentucky, there would be other ridiculous crap being thrown at him.


I mean, look at Clinton. They had to smear him with a sex scandal, of all things. They'll throw whatever insults they can get their hands on.

[Aqizzar]

nowadays

Dropping into my own thread to say how much I hate that word.  Or any permutation thereof like "these days" or "recently".  Nothing is Goddamn different, be cynical on your own time.

Regarding the PAC thing, I'm pretty sure the "Abraham Lincoln" comment was what the group wanted in the guy they'd stand up against Obama.  Like they said, a "metrosexual black Abraham Lincoln", to counteract the presumably metrosexual black Leon Trotsky they think Obama is.

[kaijyuu]

nowadays

Dropping into my own thread to say how much I hate that word.  Or any permutation thereof like "these days" or "recently".  Nothing is Goddamn different, be cynical on your own time.

If it makes you feel better, I do think we're getting better, not worse We don't gleefully accept any propaganda thrown our way anymore (like we did during WWII).

[Pnx]

nowadays

Dropping into my own thread to say how much I hate that word.  Or any permutation thereof like "these days" or "recently".  Nothing is Goddamn different, be cynical on your own time.

If it makes you feel better, I do think we're getting better, not worse We don't gleefully accept any propaganda thrown our way anymore (like we did during WWII).

It sort of depends a little on what you'd call propaganda, but what about "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction", "the wealth will trickle down", "there's no difference between corn sugar or cane sugar", or a disturbingly large slice of what Fox News says (or doesn't say, such as in the case of Ron Paul)?

[SalmonGod]

I think propaganda has grown much more sophisticated, while larger portions of the population have grown cynical/resistant.  Unfortunately, it's really easy to toss out information as propaganda just because it comes from authorities you dont' trust, and then follow your suspicions in the opposite direction, only to fall into acceptance of even worse propaganda.  I've watched intelligent people do this, and try to maintain a self-awareness that might prevent me from doing this myself.  But who knows?  We're at a point where truth is completely a matter of what sources you choose to trust, and there's very rarely a reason to choose one source over another that can be considered objectively absolute.

As for the Abraham Lincoln thing, which may be a related issue, the growing libertarian movement sees the civil war as having been a conflict over limitations of federal jurisdiction more than the issue of slavery, and hates Lincoln's guts for beginning an expansion of federal power.  This is probably why associating Obama with Lincoln is symbolic for them.

[Jervill]

The Paulbots took over the Minnesota GOP nominating convention, claiming 32 of the 40 delegates from this state.  Also, their wacko candidate won the contest to be crushed by Klobuchar in November.  To be honest, I'm not quite sure what they hope to accomplish; most likely they'll just be barred from voting in the National Republican Convention in Tampa.

Of course, Minnesota has so few Republican delegates it doesn't make much of a difference unless they actually manage to stage coups in states with more delegates.

[Duuvian]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but it's important and welcome news to me:
APNewsBreak: 22 states, DC back Montana in Supreme Court corporate spending fight

Also notice the following from the article:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On Friday, Montana's case was given a boost when U.S. Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sheldon Whitehouse, D-D-R.I., signed on in support. The senators argue evidence following the Citizens United decision, where millions in unregulated money has poured into presidential elections, shows that large independent expenditures can lead to corruption.

If someone wants to make a new thread due to the importance of the issue it's cool with me but I figured I'd put it here first.

[Karlito]

I just want to know who the heck the American Tradition Partnership is.

American Tradition Partnership (ATP) is a no-compromise grassroots organization dedicated to fighting the radical environmentalist agenda. We support responsible development of natural resources and rational land use and management policies. Only together can we protect access, private property rights, and affordable energy for all Americans!

Because, honestly, that's not very enlightening.

[Sheb]

Well, they're a front for energy and extractive company that fight stuff like national parks, cap & trade and any environmental organization.