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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 763491 times)

Bauglir

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2235 on: February 21, 2012, 01:40:33 am »

Qualify, yeah, but I was under the impression that you actually had to further apply for such things. Ah well.
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2236 on: February 21, 2012, 01:42:14 am »

I wouldn't know. I never got that far  :(
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2237 on: February 21, 2012, 02:02:05 am »

Of course people want government funded education loans because it ends up being cheaper for those looking for a loan.
I... I can pretty much stop it right here, actually. That's not it.

People, and the government, want government funded education loans because A.) education (Yes, even the soft stuff) is really, really damn important, especially in a ostensibly democratic society, and B.) education has been proven time and time and time again to be a basically unquestionably good investment -- for the individuals involved, for the society as a whole, for the government as well. There is a lot more going on there than a piece of toilet paper with fancy writing on it.


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That is, unfortunately, if we naturally assume that the ideal scenario of it plays out: that everybody who takes a loan out from the government ends up finding a job and paying back the money within a reasonable time-frame.  I am talking about years, not decades.
Neither the loan system nor the people getting into it assume that; most people going in for student loans nowadays fully expect to be paying them back decades later. The system itself largely expects that, from what I understand.

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The end result of this is creating a group of people who are too educated for what they are working in, ontop of being saddled with a bad amount of debt.  And these people cannot ever default on that debt because the government will not allow it, so you are always paying for it.
The latter bit of that, from "ontop" [sic] on, I'm down with. [ranton]The first bit... let me be frank. There is no such thing as too educated. There is no social good in ignorance. There is no virtue in "educated enough." There is virtue in "educated" and very little in "not." It can be fiscally non-optimal, yes, and it can definitely be a little silly to spend money on information and training you're not going to use and shortly forget, but there actually is an absolute social good in the spread and integration of good information -- and most accredited college courses fall somewhere in that category. There's definitely room for a greater proliferation of good public-access information (and we're seeing it, by hook and crook!), but calling education in excess of the absolute necessity somehow wasted is... short sighted, is about the best way I can put it.

There's some good beyond money going on here, but [/rantoff] even if you're just going by money, even with the problems we're having, people without college educations are in a hell of a lot worse situation than those that do have them, and their children and children's children are a lot more likely to be in little better situations.

Quote
This guy explains it better than me:
http://www.senseoncents.com/2011/04/are-student-loans-an-impending-bubble-is-higher-education-a-scam/
Hey, I've actually seen that before, though the fellow you're linking actually didn't write like, almost any of that. The original article. I vaguely remember n+1 doing some interesting stuff.

And yeah, there's some serious issues with the american school systems right now, that that article highlights. Notice one of the major points it hit on? A lot of what's caused this problem is the introduction of for-profit universities and a shift in college leadership (from educators to CEOs). Seems like the solution there might be making higher education fully government run and a free-ride for citizens ;) Obviously not if they fail out, but if they can make the cut and pass the classes...

It's well agreed tuition is getting out of control, though. That's frankly one of the biggest problems the education sector has right now and just about any damn body actually involved in the education process (Both teachers and students, basically) will tell you that.

Actually on topic: Anyone know if any of the candidates have a position on that? I know there's a lot of people that very much realize that there's a very strong lean toward "degree or shit wages," and that the education sector (especially the for-profit stuff!) is starting to crook folks harder than we can really accept, but is there much voice raising about it in the Republican (or Democrat, really) party?

Anyway, as to this
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Of course not, but do you think those who are teaching those classes are going to enlighten you or possible students to what kind of job prospects they may or may not have in that field (or any other sociology field)?
I'm actually between bachelors and masters in a "soft" degree. Almost every teacher I've met, both in my particular field and in related ones, have been absolutely straightforward about the difficulties getting a job in the field. There's also been a definite upswing on the local levels emphasizing information like that. So yeah, I'm pretty certain they're going to enlighten the students as to the job prospects they (probably don't) have in that field.

And... it's 1 AM. Which is probably why this is as long as it is. Aqui, if I see any need to keep going on this subject past whatever responses this ramble garners, I'll start another thread.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2238 on: February 21, 2012, 02:06:20 am »

That article assumes sequestration cuts take place. That would be the "doomsday" spending cuts intended to be so drastic and unpalatable that a bipartisan budget would be basically forced to compromise on a new budget. It was the thing they thought up when they decided to raise the debt ceiling again. Chances are, those sequestration cuts will not go into effect. Probably an agreement on a new budget will be reached in a dramatic last-minute session, after which they'll take another vacation.

While that outlook was using current law, including sequestration cuts, most of the improvement is not due to the sequestration cuts.  Without them, we'd still be on a sustainable path.

And like I said, this is assuming current law or paygo.  If congress doesn't keep to paygo, things look very different.  But if we keep to paygo, we don't have a long term deficit crises.  Which is completely at odds with what all our nations pundits and elites tell you.  And hence it's common knowledge that we have an entitlements crises when actually we have a "might not stick to paygo" crises.

Obvious why really as paygo probably means higher taxes on the wealthy...
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2239 on: February 21, 2012, 02:22:23 am »

Sorry, as an outsider... what is paygo?
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jester

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2240 on: February 21, 2012, 02:26:14 am »

9 pages since I went to bed last night, good work kids.

  Oh, and never argue with an idiot, people may not be able to tell the difference
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2241 on: February 21, 2012, 02:27:36 am »

Sorry, as an outsider... what is paygo?
Paygo! Not to be confused with Prego, which is a spaghetti sauce. Or... whatever else sounds or is spelled vaguely similar to it.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2242 on: February 21, 2012, 02:36:56 am »

At first I read those all as Faygo.  Whoops.
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MaximumZero

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2243 on: February 21, 2012, 02:39:06 am »

I doubt that anything to do with our gub'mint could ever be that syrupy sweet.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2244 on: February 21, 2012, 02:46:15 am »

Indeed.
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2245 on: February 21, 2012, 02:53:17 am »

Betcha' we could baste and cook some of the politicians.

Though now the mental image of republican candidates with a fine layer of syrup and marinade is trying to insinuate itself into my brain and this is really not going to a happy place really really fast argh.

I'm remembering an old TMNT comic where the turtles got honey poured all over them and now everything is sticky and glistening and it's just bad man it's just bad.
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MaximumZero

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2246 on: February 21, 2012, 03:01:28 am »

Why am I sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2247 on: February 21, 2012, 03:06:33 am »

Is that Simpsons or Futurama? I'm pretty sure it's one of the two :/
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MaximumZero

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2248 on: February 21, 2012, 03:13:27 am »

Futurama. It's one of the only lines I know from the show.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #2249 on: February 21, 2012, 08:38:32 am »

Man, this thread gets seriously herpaderp when there's no primaries for three weeks.
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