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#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.

#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.

#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.

#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

[b_knight286]

Seriously though there was a thread about molesting mermaids and turning their babies into bones!  We need to draw a line somewhere, but nobody here wants to, and I wouldn't have it any other way!  Would be much less disturbingly hilarious lurking here, heheheh.

[Putnam]

@Vorsh99: Sorry, but no. It makes no sense for me to remove them, just to tell people how to mod them in again.

The whole game is about killing and devil worship, which makes even LESS sense.

Not sure which game you're playing?

[Meph]

I have my ideas for the guilds pretty much set, but I wanted some feedback about the military ideas. Basically you can make a workshop, tell a dwarf to go there and transform into a legion dwarf. But why stop there? Why not make a little class system. So here a rough draft:

Drill sergeant => Natural teaching/military tactics skill, no combat boost.
Legionnaire => Higher skill learn rate,fighting,  higher strength.
Marksman => Higher skill learn rate,archery, higher view range.
Guard => Higher skill learn rate,armor/shield, less pain, slow.
Scout => higher skill learn rate, natural wrestling/doging skill, fast.

And a last idea, but I dont know if possible:
Artillerist => high skill learn rate, siege operating, nofear (so they dont flee from the siege engine when they see enemies)

The problem I see with the artillerist is that he wont flee even in normal situations, and that using siege engines is more the "engineers guilds" part, and that it is a civilian profession, not a military labor. You can also not assign a specific dwarf to a siege engine, so it would be hard to manage to man catapults and ballistas just with these artillerists.

[lwCoyote]

Meph/AoA >I did tick harder learning, but even with that on 80 beds should have gained some points. I did READ it in order to 'double check' and sure enough, his stonecrafting was at the default 5 pts, Im pretty sure.

Its in one of my new LP episodes, so when it comes up 'on camera' I'll letcha know so you can see for yourself

[lwCoyote]

On a separate note, I greatly approve of the idea of combining labours, I hope it works out =)

[Meph]

I played a fort with the new labors. It works beautifully. Of course it completely massacres the old caste system as well, because all the new labors are mixed, but I am working on it ^^

[fasquardon]

I am also surprised that concubines being removed has received so much attention.  Their going will make playing as dwarfs rather harder though - which is perhaps a good thing.  It will encourage me to learn how to make a properly self-sustaining fortress...

With regards to more realistic metalworking Meph, the reason why I voted against it was not because I don't like the idea as such, but because making steel even harder to get while mithril is the entry level metal of choice didn't make too much sense.  For my part, I'd love to see more realistic metalworking pathways (and more realistic pathways for the other materials), I'd like to have that combined with steel being important for dwarfs though.  (I know, mod consumer wants cake and to eat it - stop press.)  One of the things I really like about vanilla DF is that steel is a big and important thing.  It feels dwarfy that way.

What do people think of the idea of making the super-metals in Masterwork alloys of steel?  So instead of making a wolfram weapon, we'd be making weapons out of spring steel, hastelloy and suchlike...

The guildhalls are looking nice Meph.  Looking forward to playing around with them.

The ideas with nobles are looking very interesting.  I like the ideas for tying nobles to workshops and tools (and if at all possible, vice versa).  Making all the dwarfs nobles as a way of encouraging fancy bedrooms seems overkill - but maybe that is just because of my play-style - I give all my dwarfs fancy bedrooms just 'cuz it is one more way to make them happy.

The military class ideas are sounding interesting.  I've not played with squads enough to really understand all the implications though.

With the embassy, is it possible to make one of the social skills be the skill for using it?  Wondering why you are re-purposing the tanning skill to use the embassy y'see.

I like the new labours naming scheme.

I have found the latest discussion of how to balance the game interesting.  I noticed that no one mentioned my pet peeve (the high value of food in trading), but were mentioning things that I have, for the most part, never found too easy in my games (I've lost many dwarfs to random wildlife - and lost golems to ambushes - clearly not a military pro here).  It really brought home to me what a challenge DF is to balance...

fasquardon

[Meph]

I have changed mithril to be made of steel+silver+silver+silver. And welded mithril is mithril+titanium. That way mithril is based on steel, and you cant circumvent steel and go directly to mithril. There is still some raw mithril now and then, but rare.

Ideas with the nobles is something for later. Its in the todo list now, but I do not work on it atm.

Emassy and Ambassador: You have to understand the difference between a labor and a skill. I have maybe 20 skills or so free that I could use, but they have no associated labor. Labor is what you can toggle in a dwarf, like "tanning". In this case it will be "diplomacy". The skill in Ambassador then. So you have a dwarf with active diplomacy labor, becoming a legendary ambassador. If I use skills without labors in workshops, ANY dwarf would run the reaction. You could not control it, besides workshop profiles.

Balancing is indeed impossible. If I make food less expensive, it gets even easier to sustain your fort only through buying all the food caravans bring. If I make it more expensive, you can buy a kingdom with your lavish meals... which way is better? No one knows.

[smakemupagus]

What labor actually tans hides now?  I usually have ~4 dedicated tanners, I was a little surprised that was judged a useless one

[Meph]

I didnt really judge it as useless, but as free. I can access all reactions that use tanning skill, so I can change it. Tanners also do not have a quality modifier, it only concerns speed.

Tanning is done by the leatherworker.

I am curious how all this will work out for most players.

[smakemupagus]

I can access all reactions that use tanning skill, so I can change it. Tanners also do not have a quality modifier

Aha, I get it now

[Meph]

From my changelog:

- Thresher, Miller and Presser is now one skill: Miller/Presser
 - Wood Burner, Glazer and Potter is now one skill: Oven Operator
 - Leatherworker and Tanner is now one skill: Leatherworker
 - Soapmaker and Lyemaker is now one skill: Chemist
 - Potashmaker is now: Alchemist
 - Beekeeper is now: Hivekeeper
 - Animal Caretaker is now: Animal Armorer
 - Clothier is now: Tailor.
 - Woodcutter is now: Lumberjack.
 - Strand Extractor is now: Priest/Apostle of Armok.
 - Fish Dissector is now: Fish Farmer
 - Grower/Planter is now: Farmer
 - Wax Worker is now: Wax/Poison Worker
 - Tanner is now: Ambassador
 - Soapmaker is now: Runesmith
 - Alchemist is now: Sorcerer
 - Presser is now: Researcher/Inventor
 - Glazer is now: Musician
 - Building Designer is now: Architect
 - Potter is now: Scribe
 - Pump Operator is now: Machine Operator
 - Miller is now: Archeologist
 - Plant Gathering is now: Herbalism
 - Ambusher is now: Hunter
 - Kiln is now: Clay Oven
 - Wood Furnace is now: Wood Oven

IMPORTANT: You dont have to remember any of this. No worries. It will all show ingame, so you just enable your Runesmith if you want him to work in your RuneArmory or RuneWeaponry. Or your Scribe if you want him to work in the Scriptorium. There are only four things that change for you:

1. Glazing/Pottery is done by the Oven Operator, because they buildings are now called Wood Oven, Clay Oven and Brick Oven.
2. Plant processing, milling and pressing is all done by the Miller/Presser.
3. Soap is made by the Chemist.
4. Leather from skin (tanning) is done by the Leatherworker.

And about the military ranks:

Legionnaires get 200% learn rate for all melee weapons.
Marksmen get 200% learn rate for all ranged weapons.
Guards get 200% learn rate for armor and shields.
Scouts get 200% learn rate for dodging and unarmed combat.

All four get 200% learn rate for student, teacher, military tactics, situational awareness and leadership.

I might do some more buffs for them depending on type. For example view range for marksmen, speed for scouts, pain resistance for guards and likes fighting for legionnaires. I might add a slightly faster healing to all four as well.

Legionnaire Training
[SKILL_RATE:TEACHING:200:0:0:0]       
[SKILL_RATE:LEADERSHIP:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION:200:0:0:0]
[SKILL_RATE:AXE:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:BITE:200:0:0:0]                 
[SKILL_RATE:DAGGER:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:GRASP_STRIKE:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:HAMMER:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MACE:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MELEE_COMBAT:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MISC_WEAPON:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:PIKE:200:0:0:0]                               
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]     
[SKILL_RATE:SPEAR:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:STANCE_STRIKE:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:SWORD:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:WHIP:200:0:0:0]               
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marksman Training
[SKILL_RATE:TEACHING:200:0:0:0]       
[SKILL_RATE:LEADERSHIP:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION:200:0:0:0]
[SKILL_RATE:ARMOR:200:0:0:0]             
[SKILL_RATE:BLOWGUN:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:BOW:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:CROSSBOW:200:0:0:0]             
[SKILL_RATE:DODGING:200:0:0:0]                   
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]           
[SKILL_RATE:RANGED_COMBAT:200:0:0:0]                       
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]         
[SKILL_RATE:THROW:200:0:0:0]               
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guard Training
[SKILL_RATE:TEACHING:200:0:0:0]       
[SKILL_RATE:LEADERSHIP:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION:200:0:0:0]
[SKILL_RATE:ARMOR:200:0:0:0]           
[SKILL_RATE:MELEE_COMBAT:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]             
[SKILL_RATE:SHIELD:200:0:0:0]                             
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]     
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scout Training
[SKILL_RATE:TEACHING:200:0:0:0]       
[SKILL_RATE:LEADERSHIP:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:KNOWLEDGE_ACQUISITION:200:0:0:0]
[SKILL_RATE:DODGING:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:GRASP_STRIKE:200:0:0:0]             
[SKILL_RATE:MELEE_COMBAT:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MILITARY_TACTICS:200:0:0:0]               
[SKILL_RATE:MISC_WEAPON:200:0:0:0]                         
[SKILL_RATE:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:200:0:0:0]   
[SKILL_RATE:STANCE_STRIKE:200:0:0:0]           
[SKILL_RATE:WRESTLING:200:0:0:0]   

Guilds I have Merchant's Guild, Carpenter's Guild, Mason's Guild, Beast Warden's Guild, Smith's Guild,  Jeweler's Guild, Craftdwarf's Guild, Fisherman's Guild, Farmer's Guild, Healer's Guild, Engineer's Guild, Alchemist's Guild... all accessable through that one Guildhall building. I also have the Priest/Apostle of Armok and the Sorcerer/Arcane Dwarf. These I probably put into other buildings, like the temple and "magic something for later"

Keep in mind that none of them have natural skills. No "savants" that arrive with the high skill already intact... these guys can only learn their fitting skills faster.

[Fairin]

wanted to add in my opinions meph

1. concubines: was kinda interesting cause you could assign them labors in therapist and use them just like normal dwarves so if you wanted to start a fort with 50 dwarves. you could, people taking it a bit too "literately"  "Sex slaves? for real?" add them back and rename them just dwarves =)

2. having all the skills combined sounds interesting. but would my leatherworker get exp from tanning ? like tan a whole buncha leather and be a legendary leather armorsmith in no time?

3. wood oven?. why not charcoal pit =) - argh oven operator,

4. drill sarge ftw please?

5. guild hall gonna be a nice extra large building like the Colosseum ?

[Xardov]

Hi, using the latest Masterwork V.2i, I generated a new world (Garden of Gaia) and surprisingly, no Minotaur, Nightwing, Fury, and Werewolf civilizations were formed.  They were not wiped out, they simply never were created, even though I enabled them in the settings.  I even tried increasing the number of civilizations (from 30 to 100). (Also, why is the number of megabeasts/semi-megabeasts so low?)  Are you aware of this bug, Meph, and is there a fix?  Much thanks in advance!

[Dipo233]

Mac version of V.21 please !!!