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Poll

One or the other... vote once for #1 and once for #2.

#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.
#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.
#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.
#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

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Author Topic: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.3 - New release and old post. This will be locked later.  (Read 1857999 times)

arclance

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8700 on: January 19, 2013, 03:20:07 pm »

I took the survey but I will clarify one thing.

I don't use the brewery because it does not recover a small number of seeds like the Vanilla still.
I get too many "Urist McFarmer cancels plant 'booze reactant' no 'booze reactant' seeds" as it is without destroying them.
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I think that might be one of the most dwarfen contraptions I've ever seen the blueprints of.
The Bloodwinery v1.3.1 | Dwarven Lamination v1.5 | Tileset Resizer v2.5 - Mac Beta Tester Needed
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8701 on: January 19, 2013, 03:33:41 pm »

Only Prickle berries, muck root and bloated tuber dont produce seeds, but so do the new still reactions for them. Thats simply because these 3 had no seeds. I only added the seeds in the last update, didnt add the seed-product to the brewing yet. I have fixed that now.

But other then that: It should produce a seed for each plant you use, 1 for 1. There might be a little problem with the surface plants though (unrelated to brewing)... I took the times form the "seasonal plant mod" but I think the author made a mistake. If the plants dont grow in winter, and they need exactly 2 seasons to grow, then plants sowed in the first day of summer will grow at the first day of winter. But since they dont grow in winter, they will get destroyed. That would mean all surface plants can only be sown in spring atm, because all summer/autumn sown-plants will die in winter. This is of course not as intended. I will change the time to 1 season for surface plants, that way people can use both spring and summer to plant, and get quicker results. I personally like this as well, because plants do grow faster with water/sunshine, while the mushrooms in the caves take forever to grow. :)

@zach123b: Why make stuff inbetween? If I can make them with the correct number into several drink-containers, why not directly make booze into barrels ?

PS: More inside invaders are planned. ;)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 03:37:20 pm by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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arclance

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8702 on: January 19, 2013, 03:56:56 pm »

Yes I see the seeds in the 2f raws now.
I don't know why but the seed problem is worse when I use the brewery than when I use the still.

I also found that the description of the "Smoke Effects" Misc option is inaccurate.
Quote
Smoke Effects adds harmless clouds generated in workshops. Dust when you work with stone, sawmill with wood, sparks from metal, smoke from coke... has no further effect but to add some activity to the workshop areas. You need temperature on to use this.
But I found a syndrome on the boiling stone in the brewery controlled by that option.
Code: [Select]
YESDUST[PRODUCT:20:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:ALCOHOL_VAPOR][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:ALCOHOL_VAPOR]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SLIME_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:alcohol vapors]
   [STATE_NAME:GAS:alcohol vapors]
   [STATE_ADJ:GAS:alcohol vapors]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:1:1]
[STATE_COLOR:GAS:WHITE]
   [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
   [MELTING_POINT:NONE]
   [BOILING_POINT:10000]
   [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
   [COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
   [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:10001]
   [SYNDROME]
      [SYN_NAME:alcohol vapor]
      [SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
      [SYN_CONTACT]
      [SYN_INHALED]
      [CE_NAUSEA:SEV:300:PROB:25:RESISTABLE:START:1:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
      [CE_DROWSINESS:SEV:70:PROB:100:RESISTABLE:START:10:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
That is more than "no further effect but to add some activity to the workshop areas".
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 04:04:36 pm by arclance »
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I think that might be one of the most dwarfen contraptions I've ever seen the blueprints of.
The Bloodwinery v1.3.1 | Dwarven Lamination v1.5 | Tileset Resizer v2.5 - Mac Beta Tester Needed
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zach123b

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8703 on: January 19, 2013, 04:21:58 pm »

yeah, simpler is better. i just like 1 cheese=5/10 booze and was trying to think of a way to go around the stack bugs apparently forced by vanilla df

the copy blueprint reactions in architect's study only takes a copy to make, essentially making copies out of air :s

you're going to make us deathly paranoid, aren't you meph xD
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Firehawk45

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8704 on: January 19, 2013, 04:23:17 pm »

"The spinning poll strikes the Firehawk in the head, tearing apart the brain"

"The Firehawk was struck down"

so many questions... For the buildings, maybe a "all of them" option would have been nice, clicking them all isnt as fun as capture them all...
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8705 on: January 19, 2013, 04:36:11 pm »

Imagine designed, naming, writing reactions and a manual section for all. Beats clicking one checkbox :P

25% of the people that start the poll dont finish it btw ^^
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8706 on: January 19, 2013, 04:51:20 pm »

If the plants dont grow in winter, and they need exactly 2 seasons to grow, then plants sowed in the first day of summer will grow at the first day of winter. But since they dont grow in winter, they will get destroyed. That would mean all surface plants can only be sown in spring atm, because all summer/autumn sown-plants will die in winter. This is of course not as intended.

Oh good, I'm glad to hear that was not quite Working as Intended :D

Typhuss

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8707 on: January 19, 2013, 05:49:02 pm »

So I installed the accelerated DF version of the mod, and it works fantastically. I have gone from 60FPS is one of my more long-standing fortresses to ~100. Great mod and thanks for putting it out there. However, I am noticing some strange behavior regarding keyboard input. It often registers keystrokes twice, even when only quickly tapped. (i.e. typing "Leather Quiver" in the manager screen will result in something like "Lleather quivverr." Is this a known issue or something that I was just unlucky enough to discover myself? I did a cursory search on google and here on the forums for any others having the problem but came up empty. If there are others experiencing the same issue, are there any known fixes?
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8708 on: January 19, 2013, 06:01:38 pm »

It is a known issue and has been reported several times in the accelerated df thread. I overdid it with the milliseconds of pause between keystrokes, will be changed. I think I skipped a line and changed one too many. Should have only been for the playing of macros.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Typhuss

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8709 on: January 19, 2013, 06:05:51 pm »

Ok great, thanks for the quick reply. My apologies for posting this in this thread as opposed to the accelerated DF one. I'm kinda new around here. :)
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MiamiBryce

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8710 on: January 19, 2013, 08:55:49 pm »

25% of the people that start the poll dont finish it btw ^^

Right now, I'm one of them.  I stopped because the pole asks about randomly generated creatures.  I read all the change logs, i've not seen anything having to do with randomly generated creatures.  What am I missing.
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Tally

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8711 on: January 19, 2013, 09:10:10 pm »

So I tried out kobold camp for the first time. The plan was, with two carpenters/woodcutters, build a large wooden wall to surround my kobolds. Before I could finish it, somehow a pack of raptors got into my fort without me noticing and tore everyone to bits. As always, the drakes I had pastured outside put up a really good fight. Also, a migrant wave came after 5 or 6 of my original kobolds were dead... and I wasn't informed of them? I'll have to see what's up with that on my next playthrough.
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Bloax

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8712 on: January 19, 2013, 09:19:50 pm »

Right now, I'm one of them.  I stopped because the pole asks about randomly generated creatures.  I read all the change logs, i've not seen anything having to do with randomly generated creatures.  What am I missing.
Settings.exe > Creatures > Generate creatures
Meph added Talvieno's creature/civ generator. Might've forgotten to mention it beyond some separate update post though.
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oh_no

SabbyKat

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Big poll, 10 questions this time.
« Reply #8713 on: January 19, 2013, 09:43:43 pm »

have a few minutes free, so going to drop some quick feedback/bugs/etc below.

Version: v.2f (nothing modified outside of gui interface options)

tileset: Phoebus

- My armorer just made an 'iridium INDESTRUCTIBLE armor' Artifact. I don't think this is right... is it? Sounds like a missed tag in the code or similar, as I don't think 'indestructible' is an actual type of armor design.

- I noticed a HUGE, HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEE drop in fps (went from over 400, to under 30!) in 2 seconds. I could not find the cause. No siege/ambush. When one arrived, I slaughtered it, it fled, but still, I lagged so harshly, I could barely move. Nothing abnormal happened, no burrows issues, etc. Rebooted the game, my computer, etc, same result. In rage, I abandoned and noticed it said my 'strength was broken', Yet there were no sieges/ambushes were on my map above...?

Further watching, it said 'offloading 782 units' - WHAT?! I had 48 dwarves, and few animals (butchered them to keep numbers down as I hate the clutter :P). I did NOT have any caverns open yet, but my only assumption is basically, cavern ambushes were 'stacking up' in some form. That's the only way to account for the well over 500-600+ extra units I couldn't find...

on reclaim, with just my 7 dwarves, I got '675' units offloading. All the animals are dead, and I didn't even unpause the game, so 'ambushes/sieges that just appeared on the map!' are impossible.

Third reclaim, using DFhack to reveal the map, going to go look what the heck it is... visibly, with reveal, there's nothing abnormal. About 14 animals I can see on the surface/caverns. Hell isn't revealed/breached. The only viable option, is the underground ambush races are down below (which I can't see even with reveal) and are stacking up and bugged. No other real solution to the lag and unit count.


Note for Dragons: I just had a second one appear, and oddly, with even fewer golems (using these as examples for fights, as dwarves vary depending on armor, caste, etc), and this time I was hitting (and missing) a lot more often. A lucky shot from a spear golem in the back of the buggers head fixed him nicely. It was a lucky kill, but it seemed a bit more balanced this time... hrmph. I'll do more testing!

- Red Dragons (the most common 'titan/mega beast' on the surface, from my experience) seem to have in the 2.f version, gotten INSANELY strong. Either I'm absolutely terribly lucky, or something has changed dramatically vs the v1.0 of the mod.

#1 it SEEMS their breath can melt golems, having difficulty confirming due to the crazy speed of battles and lack of 'fire damage' in combat logs.

#2 they seem to be EXTREMELY fast in attacking. I had a group of (for example) 12 golems vs just it - and across my 12 golems, I think during the fight each got 2 shots off (almost every single shot missed entirely), while it hit them at least 6-12 times between their strikes.

#3 Their 'dragon fire' seems a tad op. They can literally spam it non-stop, and basically makes any viable tactic aside from Volcanic (last I recall, that is) non-existent. Send 50 steel-cladded dwarves? you're wiped out before you even take a swing. Archers are viable, yes, but it spits fire at above ground areas (not sure if it still fires at fortifications). I don't think it's intended for them to have god-mode fire breath spam like they do, at least not when they're insanely fast, building destroyers, and very resilient.

I remember before in 1.0 version, they were laughably weak. A siege of 10 copper-bronze armored units would destroy them. But I just watched one take on a full 80+ ferric elf siege (who were riding GIANT bark scorpions and other fun stuff) wipe them out entirely. Then an automaton siege, only deliver 'light scratches' to it! x.x




- harder Farming. Over-all, it's a very solid system, which really forces you to extend out and control your food. No more having a stockpile of food ranging over 15,000+ from just 4 fields of farming! It's damn hard to use ONLY farming to survive now, and fishing and other avenues, are vital to be 'comfortable' even with a ton of farms running.

There is a flaw I noticed. Above ground crops take two months to 'grow' - you claimed (pages back :P) to plant only in spring/summer, and not autumn, as they won't grow in time for winter. But unless you plant seeds within the first 5 seconds or so of it turning to summer, ANYTHING planted in summer, will generally be lost. 2 full seasons=Summer+autmn, meaning they begin to 'ripen' in winter, which can't be. So only Spring is viable. Not sure if this is intended, but thought I'd point it out.



- Certain plants (still trying to compile a list) do not show up in your stockpile summary (z, bottom left corner - Plants: (4241). Example, I have 490 cave wheat, 183 strawberries, 80 quarrybushes, 500 plump helms, etc. It shows I have 237 plants. Yet stockpile menu, shows I have the listed amounts. If not reported by others (rushing due to being busy in real life), I'll go do a test and try to find which count, which don't, and such to help pin down the issue if not resolved.

- Fish Ponds are a very nifty addition, especially as you can't really optimize where your river/brook/etc will be outside.

My issue is (personal feedback - not direct problems), is it's quite silly in how difficult it for effort vs gain. Speak of Nets/rods, which cost thread (cloth), wood, and various pieces, all of which are renewable of course. Normal fishers, don't need any of this so comparing the cost vs normal fishing, normal fishing wins.

BUT! Ponds let you be safe from mobs from rivers, and the outside! Very true. However, the actual 'danger' of fishing naturally, with some ingenuity can almost be entirely negated. Build a 5 to 9x5 to 9 wide box, put a roof over it, a floor, designate a single wide hole in the water for fishing. Add in a tunnel from inside the base to the hut with no way in from the outside, making fishing from any above-ground source of water, nigh safe from anything, even building destroyers.

This would be fine if the 'catch rates' were equal, but generally, the speed of fishing from 'ponds' seems to be a good bit slower vs normal fishing of equal skill. Now, add in the pretty damn high 'lose' rate of equipment, and the effort to make said tools to fish from ponds... I simply setup 'safe huts' on a murky pool/brook/etc, rather than use them. Less materials wasted, faster catch rate, more food, less hassle over all.

 It's also most efficient to just spam buckets from a stonecutter (using blocks from a brick furnace), due to the 'lose chance' of rods/nets, even if lower, will still inevitably happen. I'd much prefer to lose a single block, then valuable thread/wood (wood taking a good bit of time to grow, especially with harder farming!).

My suggestion (unless I'm overlooking something/overstepping my 'rights' to talk about it), would be to either reduce the fail chance of rods/nets to make them much more viable, or increase catch rates/speed, or a mixture of both. Even if rod's are say, 5% fail - after 20 fish average, I'd lose it. 20 fish in a 100 man fort isn't a lot! :P


Quick positive notes:

- I love the new 'schematic' system to copy schematics, and create most of them with a higher chance of success that's fair, but risky. I also love the ability to create mechanisms, and other 'acquirable' bits.

- I LOVE the new menu's, they help a lot! And are much easier to look at. :P

- The Apocatherius (damn word!) building, I believe you mentioned is a work in progress. It seems really baron, especially compared to the old one.

- Over-all, I like the rebalance feel from 1.9.5 compared to 2.f - I can see you got good ideas going on here, even if not 'complete' yet, and will be posting more feedback as I find it (within reason).



Also, I completed the voting poll.


« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 01:23:20 am by SabbyKat »
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gn0rt0n

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2f - Bugfix, Graphics and Kobolds (and Linux/Mac OS)
« Reply #8714 on: January 19, 2013, 10:06:22 pm »

@zach123b: I increased it to 20, which is the max capacity for barrels. (yes, I know toady can fit more in them, but modders cant) I could also split it, but dwarves dont drink from jugs. Are cheeses always made in batches of 5 ? If yes, I can balance it on this...

I've been thinking the opposite actually. I think they are overpowered right now. It seems that farming has been nerfed so much for booze production by lengthening the growing cycle and increasing the need for fertilizer that I can't support an early game fortress anymore through it and I don't want to micro fertilizer production and use my trees, and I need production before my slag pits are even built/in use. I saw one of your posts several pages back about using the goats on embark and decided to try it as  I had previously skipped over them.

Taking a few (ie 5) goats or so at embark and giving a dwarf increases in milk/cheese/food and then sticking him a a 11x11 room with those 3 buildings working full time as a booze guy has completely replaced my farming dependence. I am swimming in booze more than I ever have and there is always extra cheese to trade/eat even after the booze. The goats seem like they have kids a couple of times a year so the industry ballons quickly while still giving a deliverable product in both food/booze year around. It also ultimately provides extra meat/bones/leather once I start slaughtering.

Basically goats have become my #1 early-game fortress sustain tool. Cost is a non-issue as well since I no longer take any seeds/spawn with me. I don't spend any points on farm/brew either as I can wait for migrants. I don't need geese/turkeys anymore either so although the goats are more points (37) at the start, there are plenty of points to jump start my industries and it takes absolutely no micro-management (ie, hens/hatching/forbidding etc) and starts producing actual booze within the first month rather than multiple-growing seasons.

YMMV, but this is what I have felt as of 2f with harder farming enabled. I have not tired the grazing option, so perhaps this will add more balance to the issue right now.

-G
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