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Poll

One or the other... vote once for #1 and once for #2.

#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.
#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.
#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.
#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

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Author Topic: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.3 - New release and old post. This will be locked later.  (Read 1856632 times)

Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - Update is there. Linux/Mac.
« Reply #8115 on: January 04, 2013, 11:42:16 pm »

Silver makes mithril in the crucible, which is as good as steel. You could try that. Or check the liaisons "misc" section when they come for trading. Should have some interesting things ;)

Concrete are blocks... which can only be used for constructions, and all constructions are by definition magma-safe. Even those from thatch.. or ice.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Tally

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - Update is there. Linux/Mac.
« Reply #8116 on: January 04, 2013, 11:50:40 pm »

Silver makes mithril in the crucible, which is as good as steel. You could try that. Or check the liaisons "misc" section when they come for trading. Should have some interesting things ;)

Concrete are blocks... which can only be used for constructions, and all constructions are by definition magma-safe. Even those from thatch.. or ice.

I never knew that. On both parts. Sounds like I've got my game plan for what to armor up my military with, though! Also, I managed to get pretty lucky and smelt a couple bars of iridium very early. Still not sure what to do with such a precious metal though.
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - Update is there. Linux/Mac.
« Reply #8117 on: January 04, 2013, 11:59:04 pm »

Iridium => Temple, make golem hearts, build a golem forge. ;)

Or make one epic edged weapon for your commander.

Edit: Old Poll Results:
49,8% of the people only farm underground.   => I will see if I can make above-ground crops more attractive then.
51,6% of the people go straight for steel or better. => Wow. I will spend some thought about how to make steel harder, or at least slower to get. (optional)

My todo-list for tomorrow is fortress testruns and updating the manual to all the changes I have done in the meantime.

  • I finished the Tailor, and added a lot to the Tanner. Specific tanning reactions and upgrades for chitin, shell and scale.
  • Warlocks have a special itemdrop, sacrifice these at the temple for special rewards.
  • Antmen have a special itemdrop, chitinplates
  • glassweapons and armor got a buff
  • slag system has improved a lot, less items, but faster cluttering.
  • archtitect does the blueprints now, will improve on this more...
  • weaponry and armory both got a little rebalancing and are easier to use
  • Runesmith is DONE
  • 200 brand new creatures in the mod. With sprites, thanks to an old mod called dwarven realms, which is inactive since  a year. I ported the content to 34.11...
  • All buildings show their used skill ingame in their menu.
  • Kobold Camp is an optional part of the mod now as well. :)
  • Regional interactions work now as well.. good regions kill all undeads, and the beerrain gives dwarves nodrink for a month, and the honey/milk rain gives nofood. So if they run out into the rain, it is as if they would drink/eat.
  • Random creature generating utility, if I get the permission of the author. 10-1000 procedually generated creatures, new for each worldgen.

Feedback on these features is welcome.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 02:47:07 am by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

sayke

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8118 on: January 05, 2013, 03:08:22 am »

some quick responses:

- did you switch the humans to using steel instead of rose gold? if not i urge you to do so!

- what's up with these new creatures? are they novel or just sort of redundant? i already play with the new aboveground monsters, birds, and creatures off...

- i turn off the special rains, too... they break immersion for me =P

- the slag system improvements look good, but it's not going to be intuitive for new players at all =P a bunch of clutter with no stockpile that you have to build a special building to get rid of? nobody's going to know that unless they read about it first! you might want to include a more comprehensive metalworking process guide so people know what they're dealing with...

- i'm defending my current fort primarily with poison-bolt marksdwarves and warbeasts. considering the amount of work that goes into it, i think it's pretty well balanced =)

- i'm not sure how to make steelworking harder... maybe make the yields smaller, till blast furnace at least?
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Flare

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8119 on: January 05, 2013, 03:15:33 am »

Some methods of steel making takes a lot of refinement to get to the carbon density of steel. Maybe you can make somem reactions where there's a 20% of the refining metal coming out as 1 bar of steel, and 80% of it coming out still requiring refinement for 7 bars. The reaction would of course require 8 bars in total. The flux required then to make this stuff would be huge.
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Fairin

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8120 on: January 05, 2013, 03:31:39 am »

bugger the steel go straight for the adamantite >:)

flux is a pain to haul around anyway..

you said you didn't want to do a total conversion mod... but looks like only a few more buildings and it would be redundant if you didnt "remake" the vanilla buildings just so you could "fix" the reactions in them... just my opinion...

and totally voteing for my draconic feline race in the game already >:) see pic for reference =(^.-.^)=

did not get to do a good test run on the glass - as i could not get my milita to wear it (wasnt in the materials section for armor, and they would ignore "breastplate" and telling them each to put on a specific piece of gear was making my brain hurt. one armor piece at a time. like dressing the kids for playing with goblins.

made good hunting weapons tho as most animals dont wear armor =P i make glass swordwire for hunting purposes personally...

as for the poll i really suck at putting my ideas to paper much less through a program to make a world... -.- is it possible to get flatter areas with volcanoes? , sometimes the insane z-levels drive me crazy i spend whole days channeling them down one layer at a time...

i had one volcano on a beach.. at sea level. no elevation in tolaria =) it was an epic embark...

also a world gen (if possible) to limit the sheer ammount of Z levels to say.. 50 to hell, to cut down on nessary processor power so i could technically use a wider area than 5x5 (its my island!)  , complete with lair w/titan. and temple to hell  with 2600 undead raksashas and obsidian collssai ...comes complete on embark with 50 frames per second! =D
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 03:42:18 am by Fairin »
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CaptApollo12

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8121 on: January 05, 2013, 03:35:20 am »

some quick responses:

- did you switch the humans to using steel instead of rose gold? if not i urge you to do so!

- what's up with these new creatures? are they novel or just sort of redundant? i already play with the new aboveground monsters, birds, and creatures off...

- i turn off the special rains, too... they break immersion for me =P

- the slag system improvements look good, but it's not going to be intuitive for new players at all =P a bunch of clutter with no stockpile that you have to build a special building to get rid of? nobody's going to know that unless they read about it first! you might want to include a more comprehensive metalworking process guide so people know what they're dealing with...

- i'm defending my current fort primarily with poison-bolt marksdwarves and warbeasts. considering the amount of work that goes into it, i think it's pretty well balanced =)

- i'm not sure how to make steelworking harder... maybe make the yields smaller, till blast furnace at least?

Just started playing Masterwork after only playing it when it first started. I grasped the slag system really quickly without reading but I can agree it was silly as it was. Hopefully it is nicer in the next version.
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Tally

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8122 on: January 05, 2013, 04:11:49 am »

I second the idea of a metalworking guide. Or an x industry guide in general.

As annoying as slag could be, I think it would be neat if it could be expanded into a mini-industry of its own. A quick look on wikipedia suggests it could be used for glassware in addition to what's already on the plate, although being able to make potash already, this can happen with some work to make clear glass anyway. I feel that the slag to potash reaction could probably use a higher quantity payoff, however. You still have to make lye for the reaction, which requires ash, so you're really just putting together a 1 + 0.5 (ash) + 0.5 (ash to lye) to make 2. It's very inefficient, but it'd be less tedious to just make a large batch of ash, and turn those straight into potash on a 1:1.

Alternatively, batch jobs at the ashery would be a great way to solve that issue.


As for the question of whether to make steel more or less difficult to obtain, I feel that making large enough batches of steel to outfit your military is tedious on its own, at least in the early game. I suppose the bigger problem, if you wanted to throw balance into the equation, is that flux is such a common resource that by the time most people find iron ore, they have a way to go straight for steel.

The question, I feel, would be not how to balance steel on its own merits, but instead on how to balance its competitors. There aren't terribly many equipment-grade metals at or below iron quality; copper and silver are the only non-alloys of those, and even then silver can't be used for armor, while (Bismuth) Bronze is usually quite inaccessible, as tin is an often unusually rare metal to find.


I feel that you have made some good efforts in providing military access to alternate industries, however. Rock equipment is a very cheap, albeit cumbersome, alternative for metal-starved forts, and gem equipment appear to be (if dwarven preference in equipment choice means anything) a good competitor with steel. Leather upgrades are a good idea, but require you to kill things first, which requires equipment in the first place! That or a working livestock industry, which usually isn't a good option in the first couple years of a fortress, exception of the beasts that drove your wagon.


To bullet point this idea:

-Weaker than steel or weaker than iron materials would be used more often in early fortress defense or less important squads if they were more accessible. Tin's too rare to make bronze, and most maps have either copper or iron, but not often both, in my experience.

-Alternate industries are a good lead! Consider expanding that approach, while having weaker-than-iron materials easily accessible.

-Strong-as-steel and stronger-than-steel materials, short of the really strong stuff such as volcanic, bifrost, etc. should be within the player's reach, but rare enough to warrant being a prized possession. Iridium and (welded) mithril seem to be decent models of this to me.
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Fairin

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8123 on: January 05, 2013, 04:33:42 am »

what i'll normally do is embark with enough copper ore to stamp out a set for at least 1 basic milita dwarf to keep those pesky animals in line while i outline the fort. the dwarf in question usually becomes my milita commander and trainer for the rest. i usually try to find a magmapipe. or low elevation volcano so i can start with magma, or dig right down to it and build the fort there and smelt ALL the metal i get. the copper and whatnot i get i make into armor for any new recruits for just some basic training stuff while the shock troops get the adamantite. i eventually want to go with the home guard wearing volcanic. but its just an incredible pain to create compared to mithril / adamantite.

in all i end up useing copper - mithril / weilded mithril / adamantite

some embarks i dont even bother with copper and just go straight mithril.

my only failing is marksdwarves (and magma pump stacks) =\ i should dedicate a fort to relying solely on those... maybe in kobold camp...
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Tally

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8124 on: January 05, 2013, 05:35:45 am »

Hey, you know how I bragged about getting early iridium? One of my dwarves got a fey mood and used it all on a goblet. It's description is decidedly unimpressive, but at least it's worth 120k.
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Bloax

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8125 on: January 05, 2013, 06:48:20 am »

but at least it's worth 120k at least everything nasty will come knocking on the door now.
FixedThatForYou
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oh_no

RickRollYou2

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8126 on: January 05, 2013, 07:36:10 am »

I swear the game did not give me an announcement when I ran "siren" on DFhack until just now...
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sayke

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8127 on: January 05, 2013, 12:44:45 pm »

@meph - i was thinking about this last night, and i think that the main reason i've gone straight for steel in my last few forts is because i've cheated by using reveal =P without reveal i wouldn't have been able to go straight for steel. it wouldn't have worked, because i would have had to do a ton of exploratory mining, which makes things take wayyyyy longer. i bet lots of people are in the same boat...

also, are you including the latest versions of falconne's construction helper and search plugins? they're absolutely fantastic =D
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8128 on: January 05, 2013, 01:03:28 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I use reveal (especially at the start, and it does help to get steel) :P I usually only use it though to design my fort so my more critical areas (I.e dining room) don't end up with soil in their boundaries.
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Firehawk45

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.2c - NEW POLL
« Reply #8129 on: January 05, 2013, 01:06:07 pm »

Flooding the testfort with magma: CLASSY!
Having a werescorpion dance on the corpse of my expedition leader: Just normal.

And the reclaimparty stopped on a inassecisble spot, over the vulcano.... Welcome to dwarf fortress, enjoy your stay.
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