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#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.

#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.

#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.

#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

[Meph]

I sorted the weapons for the forge screen... was unsure about sorting in the 2-handed stuff alphabetically, or sorted in itself, apart from the 1-handed weapons. Then I got distracted by something, really have no idea what, but I never sorted them back into the entity file. So, no it is not intended, and you are missing nothing, the other way around, I was. I have so many things on the todo list, I do 2 and forget about 2, before jumping to 5...

Edit: Ah.. you are the guy from reddit... I though: Man, if I get two reports about this I should better check... ^^

[ImmortalBrain]

Here i am with another bunch of tests.

1. Caravan-ordered turrets/mines work just like it was expected (and why wouldn't they?)
2. I can confirm that you can use multiple poisons on a single weapon (and not only ammo, you wanted to test that). For some reason, instead of picking a new weapon my dwarves pick a new poison and use it on already coated weapon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

3. Poisoning a weapon uses a full stack of venom (NOooooooooo this is what i feared the most)
4. I can confirm that using a rune on a poisoned weapon removes poison.
5. I can confirm that you can not poison a runed weapon (i guess poisons will stack with runes in the next version?)
6. I didn't notice any bad thoughts (Attacked by the living dead) after spawning creatures.
7. With rose-gold only armor/weapons humans SUCK. Like ridiculously suck. Maybe make then steel-only or something? They get wiped out by anything and are VERY slow.
8. I dont really know how to express that, but my dwarves were able to "Kill some part of the spawning mechanic". Ehm, i'll just list a screenshot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

9. Most importantly, i've spent 2 hours waiting for my ghostly bloodbeasty friend to do anything interesting  . Nothing has happened, he kept spamming that he is painting a pentagram though.
10. Spent another 2-3 hours trying to get this god damn ghost near my Temple of Armok. Sadly, the ward did nothing. I had 5 wards in proximity of 8 blocks from ghost and...nothing.

Some thoughts: Steel crates seem OP. Because of them i ignore everything but steel now. Dont even bother with producing it, ordering those crates is enough.
Possible fix: A - make steel crates more pricy. B - reduce mechanism's value (actually, i prefer this one. I always just dump a ton of mechanism on the TD and buy everything i need)

P.S. YES. FOUND YOU AT LAST

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What do i need now to make an army of slaves (muhahhahaa) and what does Brood Lord do?
P.S.S. Do you want me to test/give feedback on something particular?

[BigD145]

I think its funny that people dont play long fortresses, or abandon their old ones, just because a new version came out. It makes no sense, it's like buying the ipad5 just because it came out, while having a perfectly good ipad4. The old version is only worse in relation to the new one, in it does not get worse in any way.

No, it's like buying an iPad5 because your iPad4 has a broken screen. Older versions of Masterwork tend to have some things that don't work.

[Meph]

Brilliant post, thanks

1. Good.
2. I know.
3. I know.
4. Has changed in my version, different rune system. Improving weapons in the weaponry will still remove coatings. Both poison and runes.
5. Has changed in my version, both poison and rune work together. Again, improving them in the weaponry will remove coatings. Both poison and runes.
6. Good.
7. They do? I will give them something... steel sounds about right.
8. Happens I guess. There is so much on that system that can be interrupted...
9. That is good to know. I was afraid he would still target himself with the transformation, and a ghostly bloodbeast would be bad. To say the least.
10. Again, good to know, ghosts cant be targeted.

Mechanisms: Cant mod them.
Steel crates: More pricy ? Its not about the price, its the time. You get the first liaison after 6months, first steelcrate after 1,5 years if all is done right. And its only enough for 2 big weapons, or 3-4 armorpieces with each crate. I would have thought that they are balanced. They bring 4 max each caravan ?

Broodlord and Broodmother: Ehm... I hope you still have that safe, because you want to order at least one broodlord. Without a male counterpart, female broodmothers cant breed...  they give birth to your "slaves" that you want.

Test/Feedback on the spawning system and/or mages is always welcome. Both are horrible to balance. I know the Fountain of Youth is way too easy to make atm, and seeds in there are free. Apart from that, the new buildings. Toxicist with the poisons, how they fare against invasions/ambushes/cavern creatures... and the expedition system, is it overpowered, it it too complicated... Glassforge, how good or bad are these glass weapons... take your pick

@bigd145: New version tend to do that as well  And I am absolutely unreasonable proud of that.

[sayke]

meph - good call on giving humans steel. rose gold really did slow them down, and is kind of silly =D

- making the crates 3x more expensive would be reasonable as well, i'd think. otherwise you can pretty reliably trade for steel and not need to make it.

- in general, and with respect to the poll, i'd say steel is pretty easy to get to and there aren't many reasons to use iron/bronze/etc. for realism purposes i always remove the armor/weapon/etc tags from copper, because copper is just too soft... i leave the ammo tag in, though =P

- poisons... damn. they work great for hunting. i absolutely demolished a bear, which would otherwise have been really hard. i do seem to end up with a few very heavily poisoned things and a lot of unpoisoned things, though. am currently playing with invasions off so i can set this fort up right.

- i notice some of the creature sprites still have black backgrounds! do you want me to fix that?

- i'll see about mages and expeditions if everything else is squared away... which doesn't seem likely =P

[Wrex]

Actually, drakescale functioning as shell has spared me quite a few lives, and helped me with the lamination requirements in Orc Fortess quite a lot. I thought it was intended behaviour >.>

[Toasting]

I sorted the weapons for the forge screen... was unsure about sorting in the 2-handed stuff alphabetically, or sorted in itself, apart from the 1-handed weapons. Then I got distracted by something, really have no idea what, but I never sorted them back into the entity file. So, no it is not intended, and you are missing nothing, the other way around, I was. I have so many things on the todo list, I do 2 and forget about 2, before jumping to 5...

Edit: Ah.. you are the guy from reddit... I though: Man, if I get two reports about this I should better check... ^^

At least I got your attention :p

[Meph]

@Toasting: Yes, you did. And it is fixed, thanks to your report.

@Wrex: A year ago when I was bugfixing vanilla bugs I added the shell tag to scales, because people requested it as a way to deal with moods. I remember that. This is where this shell tag came from. Long outdated and forgotten. Butchering is a bit strange atm, for example you take a turtle: Of course it has skin, and scales, and a shell. So it will produce leather from the skin, AND a shellplate from the shell, AND scaleplate from the scale. Very efficient, farming turtles/tortoises.

@sayke: I took the price for steel bars, and went from that towards the crates, but I guess I can make them more expensive. Copper armor is not realistic? Really? I dont know, but arent there copper plates and such?

If you want to have a go at the graphics, sure why not. I am distracted with other things atm. ^^ check BradUffners raw explorer, you should see all creatures with sprites when you use it, should help a ton.

[Putnam]

Meph, I now see why people think you're magic. You can take the most obvious workarounds around and make them seem like they're just a natural part of the game from the start. Flavor text is so important, and you write it well. I mean, WOW. You turned poison spatters into enchantments just by changing their name. That's impressive.

[ImmortalBrain]

One more quick update before i finally go to sleep:

1.Had a quick look at the glassforge. Glass weapons are indeed really bad  They are really bad at penetrating even copper armor. Gem weapons are better, somewhere in between copper and iron. Forgot to check bolts though, but as far as i can remember gem bolts were great at penetrating stuff. Will dive more into it later.

2. I can report workflow plugin having a high chance to crash the game (not the dfhack workflow, but the one used ingame inside of workshops)
Btw - looking for a kind enough person to tell me how do i use "job" and "workflow" in order to make stuff from a particular material (i did google it, wasn't able to find a working example. Like "this will always make lamellar leather padded hood")

3.Tried out expedition system:
    Bug: Human box of stolen goods has a 100% chance to contain 10 cannonball crates + 10 handcannon crates
    Thoughts: The expedition system is nice actually, lol'ed at some "Send X to Y" reaction results, i'd like to see some things changed though:
    1) Reduce the chance to "succeed" in any of the activities, but increase the drop rate in case of success in return.
    2) Add a really low chance to get something VERY rare and powerful. I guess you can do the same with archaeologist: Remove volcanic gear but add some godlike gear with a small chance.
    3) Give back used kits in case of a successful mission (any mission).
    4) Add spy/bard reactions to drow  I mean ones that are actually profitable and serve any purpose . The same with sending diplomats to hostile civs.
    5) Now some things that are probably really hard to implement (or even impossible), but still: If you fail a spy missinon make the civ you were trying to spy like you less. And if you fail a mission against a hostile civ let it kill the dwarf performing the reaction.

I'll make a new fort tomorrow and start checking other stuff.

[firons2]

So i tamed a fox (semi-wild) and it gave birth to 3 pups (semi-wild). The fox keeps reverting to wild state will the pups revert or no? Nevermind.
And i think that Mutant fae dogs need nerfing. Way too OP.
Annnnnd can i tame a fish?

[gwathlobal]

As far as the expedition system goes, I liked the dwarven merchant halls from Orc Fortress (MW 1.9.5) more.
They could be used as a sink for excessive resources (like food, metal bars, cloth and such). In return you could get rare or otherwise unattainable items (like gypsum, wood, fuel, iridium). Besides, it used money and you could finally find a purpose for minting your own coins Right now the expedition system looks rather flavour-only and has little utility IMHO. You need lots of various things but the rewards are not so great, as by the time you acquire all those various things - you won't need them.
E.g. a caravan. Ok, you remove 20 useless stone crafts, but you only get *slightly less* useless crafts in return.
Bards are flavour-only. Silver and copper coins? But you don't need any coins other than for melting, do you?
Spies may get you something interesting from humans but you need a blackpowder pouch for them which consumes rare brimstone and saltpeter. Besides the blueprints from his loot may be more reliably researched.
Mercenaries are interesting as they accept rock armor and weapons but again you are unlikely to want to raid kobolds, goblins with rusty iron are good only in the beginning despite their high success rate, everything else will likely deforest your whole area due to low success rate and only frost giants are able to offer something interesting.
So far, only expeditions seems to be nice. They do require a number of resources, but the success rate is high and deep bronze is better than steel.

[Firehawk45]

Playing a test fort right now, lets see how it works.

Man, i played too many fallout-mods, im already missing guns Humans, come here, i want your toys!

[Nevets_]

I've played around with using magma bottles on spawn locations safely, for anyone who is interested.  Unfortunately the complex setup required to safely do it means it's not really practical to use it to fill a 1x1 hole so you can put a workshop over it (which is what I was hoping); but if you setup a repeatable system you can use it to fill a reservoir, which can then be emptied into the level below your forge.

Code: [Select]


Top Floor   2nd Floor   3rd Floor and further down

########    ########    ########     
####   #    ####   #    ####   #   
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    # - Wall
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    > - Stairs down
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    D - Door
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    X - Up/Down Stairs
.>D+.. #    #XDI   #    #X##   #   
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    I - Support (build first)
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    + - Retractable bridge (channel out tile, then build second)
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    . - Constructed floor (build third)
#### . #    ####   #    ####   #    Then build the spawn locations and fill with magma bottles.
####   #    ####   #    ####   #   
########    ########    ########   

Make it as deep as you need, just remember that the first and second floors can't get any magma in them or it will no longer be repeatable.  Each spawn location gives you about 12 units of magma, so if you have about 1 spawn per 3 open tiles you'll get about 4 magma per tile.  You could build it in any shape you want, the important bit is that you leave a space all the way around the constructed floors, only have them touch the 1 tile bridge which is right about the support so you can actually get to them to build them.  Also note that if you make the reservoir much larger than the top floor, the magma will spread out and may evaporate before you can rebuild and dump a second load.

I also like to build my bridge out of magma safe rock just in case, and my support and floors out of cheap, renewable wooden planks.  They burn away rather than slowly melt like stone would, and you are already losing some stone to make the mechanism for the support and the flasks to hold the magma.

[Meph]

@nevets: The magma spawned is actually in relation to the free space around the spawn location. The magma-bottles are more for traps, if you want to fill big moats or channels, use the magmatanker from magmaworkshops. Magmaworkshop only appear in the build menu after you found a volcano/magmalake, so the early bottles wont help with them anyway.

Code: [Select]

###
#SF
###

FFF
FSF
FFF # are walls, F is floor and S is the spawn point. First one creates 1 tile of 7/7 magma, second one creates 8 tiles of 7/7 magma.

@Firehawk: Why not try the elven bows instead

@gwathlobal: I thought the merchant hall was too easy. The expedition system does have one very important mechanic: It allows access to all civ-related items, even if that civ is dead. You create a world without drow and automatons, but only notice 5 years into your fort? No problem, if they dont come to you, you can go to them. The 20 stone crafts give you some again, civ related crafts back, same idea. I really have to find a use for coins though...

@firons2: Mutant feadogs have been removed in the next update, even before your post And I think fishes would airdrown.

@ImmortalBrain:
Glass: Thought so. Had similar glancing away in my little test. Might introduce three fake glasses for this, same name though. players will never notice, unless they look into the raws.
Crashes from workflow: Falconne got the reports, fixed some bugs, updated. Next version will include the bugfix by him.
Human stolen goods: Ups... my bad, 10 crates is a bit much. Copy+Paste leftover. Is fixed.
Giving back used kits: I will do this for the raiding system. But the other stuff gets still used up, because the success-rate at the missions is usually 100%.
Add spy/bard reactions to drow: No. Bard reactions are eastereggs anyway.
Actually influencing the other civs is impossible. And volcanic is already godlike gear

@Putnam: Thank you Free to use for everyone, thats why I posted it in the dfhack thread as well. Just have to post the raws, once the next update is out. And now I have a look at the autosyndrome.