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Poll

One or the other... vote once for #1 and once for #2.

#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.
#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.
#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.
#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

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Author Topic: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.3 - New release and old post. This will be locked later.  (Read 1837627 times)

dead

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5595 on: July 10, 2012, 08:53:55 pm »

war elephants are awesome. i have half a dozen of them in a fortified room with a couple of dwarfs throwing random wooden weapons at them for about two seasons. none of them are dead though. i like that when they attack my fort, they come riding giant coatis or something. whatever they are, there is no way they are big enough. if i had any artistic talent i would draw the approaching army. the trembling looks on my dwarfs' faces as the ground shake and the war elephants drop the weapons they had carried all the ways from their homes at the edge of my map. thanks for the steel mauls. i shall use them to bash all of your heads in.
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Stormbuilder

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5596 on: July 10, 2012, 11:05:40 pm »

Something which frustrates me a little bit is that I like the MASTERWORK font, but I can't use it - because the symbols for male and female are identical, so I can't tell whether I am butchering a useless male or an offspring-producing female animal.

Am I doing something wrong?
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dennislp3

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5597 on: July 11, 2012, 01:43:39 am »

Thats when you zoom to a creature and check its description and just manually mark for butchering like that.
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Kandryn

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5598 on: July 11, 2012, 02:40:44 am »



2) The batch reaction to make tallow at the soapmaker doesn't work. Oddly, it doesn't seem to consume the lye buckets, only the tallow, and produces nothing (the normal 1 at a time reaction works fine)


Noticed that too. In my fort they bring the 10 tallow to the soap workshop, but not the lye. And still, a dwarf spend some time working on the shop, then the order is removed from the list, no cancel job message is sent, but nothing was created (nor lost, the tallow remains in the workshop)
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hikkiko

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5599 on: July 11, 2012, 03:49:57 am »

Something which frustrates me a little bit is that I like the MASTERWORK font, but I can't use it - because the symbols for male and female are identical, so I can't tell whether I am butchering a useless male or an offspring-producing female animal.

Am I doing something wrong?
press F12 to turn off truetype. standard fonts show gender properly
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A Dwarf

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5600 on: July 11, 2012, 06:32:12 am »

Any burrows around ?

Quote
Workshop reactions are red, even with all the materials aviable.
Bug:      
If a workshop is in a burrow, even if the burrow is inactive, then it accepts only materials within the same burrow.

Solution:
Make a bigger burrow including the materials, or keep the material stockpiles within the same burrow. Or delete the burrow.

Made the burrows cover nearly my entire fortress and when didn't that work, I deleted them. Which did not fix the problem either :(

I had a similar problem with steelproduction. I had Flux, but it didnt get noticed by the furnace. The fix was to let the dwarfs bring the flux to a stockpile. Maybe that works for you.

In my case, everything is already in a stockpile as far as I know. Are you suggesting I delete those stockpiles and make a new one near where I need to build?
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5601 on: July 11, 2012, 06:35:24 am »

In my case, everything is already in a stockpile as far as I know. Are you suggesting I delete those stockpiles and make a new one near where I need to build?
You don't have any "give to" stockpile orders do you? I always have trouble with steel production when I forget I set the ore pile to give to the smelter to prevent my furnace operators from walking down into the mines to grab ore.

Bouchacha

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5602 on: July 11, 2012, 09:45:49 am »

I love this mod, here are some of my suggestions:

1. Leather production is needlessly drawn out. I don't foresee too many situations where studded leather would be used in favor of lamellar since the latter doesn't require a new reagent. On a similar note, bone studs tend to be very scarce unless you have a constant butchering supply. They're also not historically accurate (as far as I know) since metal studs were used to assemble lamellar.
Suggestion: Get rid of studded leather, change studs to be made out of metal as well (maybe 1 bar = 5 studs?). I'd also love to see an option where chitinplate and scaleplate would just be called 'leather', since they're functionally identical already.

2. The main draw for me is how much simpler the material process is (no more giant bat leather waterskins!) and I'd like to see that applied to equipment as well. This might be too onerous a request but I personally don't get much out of the flavor names of the various armors. I don't see the need for bloodsteel weapons (just make them steel) or winged helmets (if they're identical to helms, just make them helms). The practical concern about this is that it makes equipping your military much more complicated. If you're short on weapons and armor and want to scavenge your enemy's, you'd probably want to have duplicate entries (cap, helm, winged helmet, etc) set up in your uniform to facilitate that but that's really time consuming. I'm sure others get a kick out of the new armor/weapon types but I don't see the need when you're managing 100+ dwarves.
Suggestion: Option to make equipment generic.

3. Some manufacturing limitations don't make sense to me. Why can't my clothier make cloaks or robes? Why can't I smelt masks? I can understand if this is meant to encourage trade but current DF trade mechanic is way too screwed up to currently salvage. Would it be possible to severely restrict what civilizations offer in order to make trade more interesting? No one gets excited when the caravan brings you 20 pig tail ropes and 100 different types of flasks. Skipping through that list gets tedious and players generally only look for a few key items. In my last run for example, I only traded for alcohol, wood and its derivatives (ash, lye, coke), steel, and elephants. The caravans never really had anything worthwhile otherwise. Drow do not bring iridium and slade as promised (at least not that I've seen) and when they do bring weapons and armor, they're of a wildly different and often useless material.
Suggestion: Severely restrict what caravans can bring (if possible) in order to make trade more worthwhile. Severely restrict the materials weapons/armor are made out for trade to make them more worthwhile (copper great axe? yay!!). Similarly, wood is the most undervalued item in the game. It does not deserve a price of 3 dorfbux, that's ridiculous.

4. The crate mechanic is fantastic and I'd love to see that expanded to other mass items. Every civilization should be offering this and it should be the bulk of the trading. Purchasing crops or meat now is especially tedious as you have to confirm the quantity as well.
Suggestion: Crates of rough wood/smooth wood/coke/ash/lye/alcohol/flux/glass/cloth/leather/crops/etc would be fantastic in addition to what's already offered.

5. Minor but why is 'make set of clothing' done at the craft workshop?
Suggestion: Make sets of clothing at clothiershop.

6. I like the idea of a training system but the current one is convoluted. I have to take logs, get paper, get ash, get ink, get leather, assemble it, build the proper workshop, limit it to the proper person and blah wayy too many steps. I usually just mod in a practice workshop or something because that's far easier to manage. Most professions can practice in more conventional ways (make rock blocks, make copper spears, plant stuff, etc) so this is only really useful for doctors. Coincidentally, it makes sense to me that in the DF world, books would only be used to teach "literate" pursuits such as bookkeeping and medicine. I don't see how I can learn how to wield an axe from a tome.
Suggestion: For realism and consistency purposes, books should not be home-made (where did they get that knowledge from??) and should only affect certain professions ("non-manual" if that makes any sense).

7. Shouldn't bullets be made of lead? That's the practical, historical, and contemporary usage. Definitely not steel.

8. Is it possible to restrict materials for random equipment? It doesn't make sense that an unskilled hunter immigrant would show up with sladeadamantine bolts.

Bugs (apologies if these are already reported)
- Stack soap making doesn't seem to do anything, at least when using tallow.
- Not sure if this is a bug but weapons are often listed several times in stockpile menus (there's about 5 listings of 'crossbows'). This makes stockpile management difficult.
- Brewery seasoning not available? I saw something about this on the changelog but didn't quite understand it.
- Smooth wood is worth the same as roughwood ($3)

That should be all (for now?). Cheers dude.
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tahujdt

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5603 on: July 11, 2012, 10:02:29 am »

I love this mod, here are some of my suggestions:

1. Leather production is needlessly drawn out. I don't foresee too many situations where studded leather would be used in favor of lamellar since the latter doesn't require a new reagent. On a similar note, bone studs tend to be very scarce unless you have a constant butchering supply. They're also not historically accurate (as far as I know) since metal studs were used to assemble lamellar.
Suggestion: Get rid of studded leather, change studs to be made out of metal as well (maybe 1 bar = 5 studs?). I'd also love to see an option where chitinplate and scaleplate would just be called 'leather', since they're functionally identical already.

2. The main draw for me is how much simpler the material process is (no more giant bat leather waterskins!) and I'd like to see that applied to equipment as well. This might be too onerous a request but I personally don't get much out of the flavor names of the various armors. I don't see the need for bloodsteel weapons (just make them steel) or winged helmets (if they're identical to helms, just make them helms). The practical concern about this is that it makes equipping your military much more complicated. If you're short on weapons and armor and want to scavenge your enemy's, you'd probably want to have duplicate entries (cap, helm, winged helmet, etc) set up in your uniform to facilitate that but that's really time consuming. I'm sure others get a kick out of the new armor/weapon types but I don't see the need when you're managing 100+ dwarves.
Suggestion: Option to make equipment generic.

3. Some manufacturing limitations don't make sense to me. Why can't my clothier make cloaks or robes? Why can't I smelt masks? I can understand if this is meant to encourage trade but current DF trade mechanic is way too screwed up to currently salvage. Would it be possible to severely restrict what civilizations offer in order to make trade more interesting? No one gets excited when the caravan brings you 20 pig tail ropes and 100 different types of flasks. Skipping through that list gets tedious and players generally only look for a few key items. In my last run for example, I only traded for alcohol, wood and its derivatives (ash, lye, coke), steel, and elephants. The caravans never really had anything worthwhile otherwise. Drow do not bring iridium and slade as promised (at least not that I've seen) and when they do bring weapons and armor, they're of a wildly different and often useless material.
Suggestion: Severely restrict what caravans can bring (if possible) in order to make trade more worthwhile. Severely restrict the materials weapons/armor are made out for trade to make them more worthwhile (copper great axe? yay!!). Similarly, wood is the most undervalued item in the game. It does not deserve a price of 3 dorfbux, that's ridiculous.

4. The crate mechanic is fantastic and I'd love to see that expanded to other mass items. Every civilization should be offering this and it should be the bulk of the trading. Purchasing crops or meat now is especially tedious as you have to confirm the quantity as well.
Suggestion: Crates of rough wood/smooth wood/coke/ash/lye/alcohol/flux/glass/cloth/leather/crops/etc would be fantastic in addition to what's already offered.

5. Minor but why is 'make set of clothing' done at the craft workshop?
Suggestion: Make sets of clothing at clothiershop.

6. I like the idea of a training system but the current one is convoluted. I have to take logs, get paper, get ash, get ink, get leather, assemble it, build the proper workshop, limit it to the proper person and blah wayy too many steps. I usually just mod in a practice workshop or something because that's far easier to manage. Most professions can practice in more conventional ways (make rock blocks, make copper spears, plant stuff, etc) so this is only really useful for doctors. Coincidentally, it makes sense to me that in the DF world, books would only be used to teach "literate" pursuits such as bookkeeping and medicine. I don't see how I can learn how to wield an axe from a tome.
Suggestion: For realism and consistency purposes, books should not be home-made (where did they get that knowledge from??) and should only affect certain professions ("non-manual" if that makes any sense).

7. Shouldn't bullets be made of lead? That's the practical, historical, and contemporary usage. Definitely not steel.

8. Is it possible to restrict materials for random equipment? It doesn't make sense that an unskilled hunter immigrant would show up with sladeadamantine bolts.

Bugs (apologies if these are already reported)
- Stack soap making doesn't seem to do anything, at least when using tallow.
- Not sure if this is a bug but weapons are often listed several times in stockpile menus (there's about 5 listings of 'crossbows'). This makes stockpile management difficult.
- Brewery seasoning not available? I saw something about this on the changelog but didn't quite understand it.
- Smooth wood is worth the same as roughwood ($3)

That should be all (for now?). Cheers dude.
I'm surprised, this is one of the only suggestion posts that I've seen that actually made possible suggestions. BTW, the reason that "make clothing set" is at the craftdwarf's is because that the clothier's doesn't have a tag for reactions, so you can't do reactions there. I like your idea of books being non-manual professions only, but most people don't. Brewery seasoning isn't available because dwarves would only see the sugar if the bag wasn't in a barrel. I think you're right, the crate mechanic should be expanded, and that's what Mpeh might do in the future.
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5604 on: July 11, 2012, 11:14:05 am »

@Bouchacha:Thanks, the report is really handy and will be considered.

1. Leather. Duefully noted and will be rebalanced.
2. Custom named armor/weapons. Will be reduced, will not be deleted. Maybe optional...
3. Caravan restrictions are very difficult, but I already did a lot on that topic. Elves will bring crates of all kinds of wood, and drow all kinds of fancy stuff, check the "misc" section. I would love to take away most random stuff from caravans, but that is impossible. They always bring toys/tools, even if the entire civ doesnt even have toys/tools assigned to the entity. -.- If I want to remove food (too easy and excessive) from caravans, then I have to remove it from the civ, and it starves. -.- I will do more testing when I am back home.
4. Crates will be expanded. Hope not too many people just order stuff for 100.000 dorfbucks and then murder everyone.
5. Clothier cant make custom reactions.
6. Interesting. I thought the current setup was easy, because all training is done in libraries. Smakemupagus send me some raws about a more-genesis aproach, with a lot more buildings, but I thought having them in one place would help ?
7. There is no lead with simple metals, thats the reason for no lead bullets ;)
8. Sadly no. Not really, everything the homeciv can make, it makes. Will seriously work on the slademantine though, because it is to unbalanced that the homeciv has it. This will definetly be changed.

@ioi101: Thanks to you as well for the long report. The bugs are all noted, the brewery I took out because it was buggy and I dont really have the time to fix it now.

About the combat reports: Interesting, but not very conclusive. Your test show that warhammers are best, but you have to remember that it is only against smaller targets. A golem would be impossible to kill with blunt weapons. And a elephant would fall easier to a pike (large target = pierce organs for max damage and passing out from pain) Testing all weapons against all possible targets is way too much work ^^
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Bouchacha

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5605 on: July 11, 2012, 12:05:00 pm »

Military Uniform
I've been trying to work out the best military uniform in Masterwork, I think it's this:
(edit: added a few more layers, heavily tested everything except robes)

What about mail?
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Firehawk45

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5606 on: July 11, 2012, 12:33:39 pm »

How do i mine living stone without destroying it? (getting the "boulder")
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5607 on: July 11, 2012, 12:39:34 pm »

Bouchacha's post is great and reminded me of another thing I keep forget to mention.  You know how you made a new reaction that specifically uses Scrap Wood for charcoal and paper?  Can you also do one that specifically uses Lamellar leather for an armor set?


6. Interesting. I thought the current setup was easy, because all training is done in libraries. Smakemupagus send me some raws about a more-genesis aproach, with a lot more buildings, but I thought having them in one place would help ?

Nah the books are pretty hard to make.  They're probably the most complex supply chain besides runic steel weapons!  And controlling the workflow with stockpiling is tricky .. so many cancellations for missing jugs of ink.

I agree with you Meph, that in the "genesis style" approach there are currently too many buildings and there is a lot of room for improvement...  I just like the general idea of using up Training Weapons (or etc.) for solidiers; and use cadavers & splints to train doctors.

7. There is no lead with simple metals, thats the reason for no lead bullets ;)

Did you add lead back to Galena in 1.9.3? (i don't see it in changelog).  Otherwise I am pretty sure there's no lead in Masterwork at all :)


AssassinT90

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5608 on: July 11, 2012, 01:16:21 pm »

Hey, guys, I need some help over here.

I started a fortress with harder smithing enabled.
I realized a little too late that playing Fortress Defense in hard mode with harder smithing enabled isn't the most brilliant idea someone can have.

I wanted to know if there's a way to mod the number of metal bars required forge armors/weapons to the default.

Thank you very much.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:18:58 pm by AssassinT90 »
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Firehawk45

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 - NEW POLL - Future of the Mod
« Reply #5609 on: July 11, 2012, 01:21:51 pm »

isnt that one of the things you can just switch without doing a new world gen?
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