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Poll

One or the other... vote once for #1 and once for #2.

#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.
#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.
#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.
#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

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Author Topic: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.3 - New release and old post. This will be locked later.  (Read 1834343 times)

CheatingChicken

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1170 on: February 22, 2012, 04:50:32 pm »

Just tried this - a chained golem doesn't fight back very effectively, but it is highly amusing to watch a dozen werewolves try to kill it  :o
Interestingly, it was very hard to chain him up - some golems appeared to free themselves and walk away.

Well, it IS a golem we're talking about. Did you expect them to be tied down by a little rope made of plant fibres? ;)

Try a more metally rope and a more static object

EDIT: Just to make sure i'm not doing something wrong: The fix for wagons doesn't work for DF2012 yet, right?
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1171 on: February 22, 2012, 04:53:31 pm »

Just tried this - a chained golem doesn't fight back very effectively, but it is highly amusing to watch a dozen werewolves try to kill it  :o
Interestingly, it was very hard to chain him up - some golems appeared to free themselves and walk away.

Well, it IS a golem we're talking about. Did you expect them to be tied down by a little rope made of plant fibres? ;)

Try a more metally rope and a more static object

EDIT: Just to make sure i'm not doing something wrong: The fix for wagons doesn't work for DF2012 yet, right?
Toady has already put the wagon fix in I thought???
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1172 on: February 22, 2012, 05:04:25 pm »

All fixes done by quietust should work, magma/fire safe, crystal glass, WAGONS as well. I know for sure that they sill work in the 34.2 version of this mod.
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damunzy

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1173 on: February 22, 2012, 05:30:42 pm »

Just posting some feedback: Nice mod- thanks for all the hard work! :)

-newbdwarf ;)
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Mr. Palau

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1174 on: February 22, 2012, 05:36:26 pm »

Why ? Look at medieval wars and check the horses for armor. Metal hooves to kick in helmets, and metal plating to protect the horse. Why should magic, or surgery, or anything dangerous be included, when the only thing you do is: Put an armor on a tame animal.
It will be balanced by the needed ingredients. No one wants to waste 3 bars of steel for a dog that cant hurt a goblin in copper armor. My experience is that dogs are only used en-masse in random traps as a last defense, but no one assigns them to his military, because they die all the time and give bad thoughs. With better fighting pets, you actually could use them they way Today designed them to be used. 
-snip-

-snip-
@ranik: Needs testing and balancing, but even armored dogs cant hurt an armored opponent. It would be like building armor and sending your dwarves into battle without weapons. But testing will show how good or bad the idea is. I had armored dogs fight UNARMORED, but iron-weapon armed dwarves (with no skills) and the dogs had no chance. So buffing up the attack would be reasonable, even if it sounds unrealistic, which has never been a concern for me. I like strategy, not simulation.
-snip-

This is what got me talking about surgery magic and other means of making a dog more powerful. Buffing up the attack of dogs that have undergone the reaction would mean the Dwarves would have to be doing something more complicated than just putting plate armor on dogs.  Dogs normally have a hard time penetrating armor, their bite isn’t powerful enough, so to get them to actually stand a chance on an armored opponent would have to mean artificially a dogs ability to penetrate armor. We already have golems too so it’s not like we could have surgery of this kind… or the same magic process.

The reason we don't use war animals the way Toady designed them is because of how sad the soldiers become when their dogs die. Toady designed the game for realism and that is realistic, losing a dog you considered a pet would be a big deal, but he didn't distinguish between pets kept to keep you happy and pets kept to kill goblins. The emotional impact of the latter on your soldiers should be much less. Historically Dogs would just be released en masse to charge the enemy or alert the soldiers to an attack, very rarely were they used in any super coordinated manner, largely because dogs don't have the brain power to understand strategy. As you and I mentioned before realistically dogs just aren’t that lethal normally, they need to pin their opponent down and go for the throat or other internal organs, or inflict enough small bore wounds to have the target bleed to death.  They hunt in packs so you wouldn’t expect them to be that great 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1, but they would shine in 6 on 1.
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1175 on: February 22, 2012, 05:46:34 pm »

Read and noted. Lets see how they do in tests, because even steel teeth do not penetrate deep.

Here the graphics, everything else is done, only balancing remains.

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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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Zeebie

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1176 on: February 22, 2012, 05:51:50 pm »

I just had my first completely automated siege defense! I put my bullet and slade turrets up on to of my outer wall, and a golem chained up outside. The werewolves just circled around the golem trying to kill it while the turrets picked them off. Once there were just crippled enemies laying on the ground, I sent in the militia to finish them off. Great fun!
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Ranik

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1177 on: February 22, 2012, 06:01:26 pm »

Read and noted. Lets see how they do in tests, because even steel teeth do not penetrate deep.

Here the graphics, everything else is done, only balancing remains.



Those look great :)
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jayseesee

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1178 on: February 22, 2012, 06:03:38 pm »

I've noticed that the shark-tooth spikes and the T-Rex helmets aren't going into stockpiles.  The cut gems wouldn't either of those 2 versions.
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I'd do that, but I don't think dwarves have words for "fair" or "logical".

CheatingChicken

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1179 on: February 22, 2012, 06:05:56 pm »

@Meph: I guess then my dwarven homeland is just not big enough to save wagons :-/
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Zeebie

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1180 on: February 22, 2012, 06:08:32 pm »

I also found out why golems cant be trained:
Unsupported CE add tag: TRAINABLE_WAR -.-
Unsupported CE remove tag: INTELLIGENT

Meph, is there some way to add these to our own raws to make our golems work?
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1181 on: February 22, 2012, 06:16:44 pm »

@jayseesee: good find, is fixed. Was only one word that needed to be changed.

currently testing armored pets in fortress mode. You can buy them at embark, I even had two armored horses pulling my wagon, so it should not surprise me if NPC dwarves and humans use those as well. One step towards heavy cavalery for humans then :)

The transformation seems to do alright, but of course I use the same boiling stones again. The armor has only to be done once, till I figure out a way around it. Till then, unlimited steelclad elephants it is.

@zeebie: sry, I should have been clearer: I found out why it does not work, is not the same as: I fixed it. What I did find is, that the tags are not supported, as in: I CANT FIX IT. The only option would be to make dwarves trainable. By default. I have no idea how that would handle in fortress mode.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Mr. Palau

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1182 on: February 22, 2012, 06:44:57 pm »

oh and Meph is the custom reaction cap a hard coded cap, or is it caused by a crash? I heard you talking about it llike a hard cap (which it is independant of what causes it) but was not sure if you meant that this was intended or unintended.
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slay_mithos

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1183 on: February 22, 2012, 07:00:54 pm »

Today, I wanted to try a fortress with only the passive animals as possible threats, so I generated a world with the template Island (the templates are really great, by the way, they just lack diversity in term of size).

After some deaths by giant bees (2 of the 7 I had), and minimal two waves, I got to a mighty 16 dwarves.
Wanting to train some soldiers and not having wood nor firepower to reach Lava, I decided to close my fort for a while and breed cows and horses, along with hawks I added to the farmers template as future hunting beasts.

After three years, I had more than 4 adult of both gender for the two animals, and decided to butcher every male but one as there is no use having them except for the animals fighting because of a lack of space.

Sadly, it didn't give me any skin to make leather from, so no armour, and no books for now (bug or my butcher being really bad at his task?).

I then decided that I would test the Gem armours, said to be at least slightly lower than iron, to equivalent to steel.
First deception, no boot or gauntlets, so my army will have to do without for now.

Setting up a 2x2 room of upright spears (training spear, 1 per trap, no high rarity either), a fast hospital just in case, I enrol two dwarves, none having any skill in battle (no dwarf came with a fighting caste, sadly).

After only a few hit, they both have to be sutured at the high part or the arms or the face, then go back and get hit again.

Sadly, after three times, one of the two got a serious injury (throat pierced, no less), and he dies while trying to get to the hospital bed that is merely 10 blocks away.

Needless to say I immediately stopped the training, but it brings some questions.

1. are those armours really useful, or am I just unlucky?
2. has Danger rooms been changed since DF2010, where even clothes sufficed in most cases?

I overly used it in the last versions, and never had more that bruises, except with some high rarity spears.
From my previous tests, it was the safest way to get the recruits get a little experience before pitting them with training weapons against weapon-less enemies, so how am I supposed to train my starting "army" before they are good enough to handle real fights, be it against animals or enemies?
Sparring won't get anywhere if nobody has any skill levelled, so am I doomed when I see no fighting caste in my two first waves?

As a side note, it is confirmed that the gems equipments have the same problem as the leather that you fixed, it won't get to the piles.
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - 0.34.2 - updated phoebus/fixes
« Reply #1184 on: February 22, 2012, 07:09:47 pm »

Ok, thanks for the report. I will test the gem armors for stockpiling then. I know they are used by the military, but I did not check storage.

I took the liberty to make training spears a little more... edged. Without mentioning it in any changelog. A little sadistic maybe, but I cant help but smirk whenever I imagine peoples faces when their recruits all die in their dangerroom. I mentioned it sometime ago, I am not the biggest fan of exploits. Thats also the reason why my embark profiles use no wooden axes, and stop at 25 drinks, instead of 26 (for an extra barrel)

I am surprised about the skin though, but I worked heavily on this today.

@MR Palau: I am not even sure that it was that. I have no freezes at embark, and I only heard about a reaction cap once in a topic with narhiril. I wrote her, but she said that it was wrong, and cant be the cause. So I dont know what it was, and will continue as before. Hopefully I was wrong and there is no cap.

EDIT: Damn it, I forgot why I came here in the first place, I worked a bit on my VB program.

GUI Changes:
Added button for Golemforge
Added button for Creature Armory
Added button for Guildhall
Added button for optional corpse removal
Added button for harder learning, 50% skill learn rates for all dwarves.
       Guildmembers are excluded, which makes them rather popular I guess.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 07:16:04 pm by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::
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