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Poll

One or the other... vote once for #1 and once for #2.

#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.
#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.
#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.
#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

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Author Topic: ☼MASTERWORK-DF☼ V.3 - New release and old post. This will be locked later.  (Read 1837240 times)

Altaree

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5760 on: July 20, 2012, 09:11:38 am »

I would like to be able to block my hellfire turrets from firing on targets. I have tried using magma-safe draw bridges but they keep getting destroyed.  What methods have other people used?
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Dan Pearson:
This is a game which calculates the volume of blood in every creature it generates so it knows how much alcohol it would have to consume to get drunk, an update which, remarkably, ended up covering people's fortresses in cat vomit.

Marshbaboon

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5761 on: July 20, 2012, 09:30:09 am »

I could be wrong, but I believe they shoot dragonfire. So you need a dragonfire safe material for the bridges. Dolomite is probably the easiest option.
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5762 on: July 20, 2012, 10:10:56 am »

[IGNORE] :P hehe sorry bout this.
 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 10:24:42 am by Godlysockpuppet »
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Altaree

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5763 on: July 20, 2012, 10:15:27 am »

Thanks!  No Dolomite. Found this wiki pages (DOH) http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Fire

Slade blocks it is. 
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Dan Pearson:
This is a game which calculates the volume of blood in every creature it generates so it knows how much alcohol it would have to consume to get drunk, an update which, remarkably, ended up covering people's fortresses in cat vomit.

ioi101

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5764 on: July 20, 2012, 10:54:14 am »

I was wrong, can't find bifrost in the list of stones. It's definitely there in the list of bars, so I guess I remembered that and connected it to stones.
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Stormbuilder

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5765 on: July 20, 2012, 10:59:13 am »

Hey Meph, is there any point in transforming Berserkers and Dwarfs of the Legion in Stonebounds? Do they maintain the benefits from the previous caste?

I did some experiments and it looks like they maintain the high attributes (strenght in particular), although it seems that the transformation has about 50% chance of failing: consuming the components but not changing the caste (at least, according to dwarf therapist, I didn't check the z screen).

Also, at this moment I am sitting on a squad of 3 stonebounds, 7 berserkers/dwarfs of legion, all of them with 5 padded shirts / full suite of plate steel armor components and runic pikes. I am itching for a fight :D
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ioi101

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5766 on: July 20, 2012, 12:24:54 pm »

After seeing how slow volcanic armored dwarves are, I decided to do a bit of testing to see how good it really is... the results are rather unexpected.

Same method as before, 5vs5 fights, and each fight done 5 times, one group had full volcanic armor, the other had full mithril armor, all great skill in fighting/defensive skills. I used 2 types of weapons - mithril battleaxes+tower shields and wolfram meteor hammers, thinking that armor will matter for battleaxes and won't matter for the hammers. What actually happened:

Both using mithril battleaxes+shields= Volcanic armor won 2, mithril armor, 3.
Both using wolfram meteor hammers= I had to leave them fighting for something like 5 mins... and there are still no clear winners. Based on how many are left and how wounded, I'd say volcanic won one and mithril won the rest. But the hammers are pretty much unable to penetrate either armor, at least for delivering killing blows, so this was worthless. Very unexpected for me, since steel warhammers were quite good at going through armor in my previous tests.

I'll be doing more testing, but as far as I can tell it doesn't look like volcanic armor is worth the bother, but obviously more testing needed.
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ioi101

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5767 on: July 20, 2012, 12:58:35 pm »

BIG caveat: after doing all this I realized that I need to create dwarves with two gauntlets and two boots, since asking for one item only gave you one of the pair. So keep that in mind. I'll try and revisit some of this a bit later to see if this matters.

Alright I ended up doing some more tests right away heh. Same idea as before (both sides use same weapons, different armor) except I used warhammers+shields instead of meteor hammers, used volcanic and mithril weapons, and tested steel armor as well.

Using mithril battle axes, volcanic vs mithril armor: volc 2, mithril 4 (this is same as my old one, getting a larger sample)
Using mithril battle axes, volcanic vs steel armor: volc 5, steel 1
Using volc battle axes, volcanic vs mithril armor:volc 5, mithril 1
Using mithril battle axes, steel vs mithril armor: mithril 4, steel 1
Using mithril pikes, steel vs mithril armor: mithril 4, steel 1
Using volcanic war hammers, volc vs. mithril armor:volc 1, mithril 5

So from all that, about the only thing you can conclude is that steel is indeed worse then both volc and mithril. Other then that, it does look like mithril is better, except for the results when volc battle axes were used.

Edit: the other clear thing is that there's something wrong either with meteor hammers or with wolfram as their material. The volcanic warhammers didn't have any of the same trouble penetrating mithril or volcanic armor.

Edit2: Instead of another reply I'll update this with what's probably my last test. This time I fixed the problem above with the armors, so every dwarf was fully armored instead of missing left gauntlets/boots. There are still unarmored body parts though in a breastplate+helm+gaunts+greaves+high boots setup, like the arms/face.

I made this simpler, just volcanic vs. mithril armor, using volcanic battle axes in one case and mithril battleaxes in the other. 11 trials.

With mithril battleaxes: 6 volcanic wins, 5 mithril wins
With volcanic battleaxes: 11 volcanic wins

It seems like with mithril battleaxes it's mostly luck based, basically who gets a cut on an unarmored body part first since neither one does much damage when hitting armor. With volcanic battleaxes, you can penetrate mithril armor easily, but not volcanic, hence volcanic always wins.

I think there may also be an effect where since mithril is so much lighter, mithril armored dwarves get more attacks, which would make sense of the advantage of mithril in the previous tests (where there were more unarmored body parts). Although this is much harder to tell, I did some 1 vs. 1 fights and looked over the logs, but it was ambiguous.

Final verdict (IMO): In FD mode, since no enemy uses volcanic weapons, mithril is probably better for armor, simply for the movement speed advantage and being relatively easier to make. Volcanic weapons are clearly better though.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:29:48 pm by ioi101 »
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Firehawk45

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5768 on: July 20, 2012, 02:03:43 pm »

Hey Meph, is there any point in transforming Berserkers and Dwarfs of the Legion in Stonebounds? Do they maintain the benefits from the previous caste?

I did some experiments and it looks like they maintain the high attributes (strenght in particular), although it seems that the transformation has about 50% chance of failing: consuming the components but not changing the caste (at least, according to dwarf therapist, I didn't check the z screen).

Also, at this moment I am sitting on a squad of 3 stonebounds, 7 berserkers/dwarfs of legion, all of them with 5 padded shirts / full suite of plate steel armor components and runic pikes. I am itching for a fight :D

I think there is a problem with castes and transformations, Meph talked about that a while ago, but im unable to find it.
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Meph

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5769 on: July 20, 2012, 06:24:49 pm »

Quote
I think there is a problem with castes and transformations, Meph talked about that a while ago, but im unable to find it.
No. Completely unrelated, castes and transformations was only about the Guildhall, which has been removed for a long time.

@ioi101: Thanks for all the testing. So you think the volcanic should be lighter ? Also note that it does extra damage against frostgiants ;)

@Someone64: You are a true hero, YEAH. I alway wondered wich glyphes were missing...

@bifrost: It is not naturally occuring, and therefore has no stockpile option. No much I can do...
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

ioi101

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5770 on: July 20, 2012, 08:32:03 pm »

Well, maybe, I don't know if my speculation about attack speed is correct. I kind of like it the way it is - volcanic is super-heavy and strong, mithril is light and practically as good vs. most enemy attacks. I guess it depends on if there's enemies with volcanic/bifrost quality weapons, or dragonfire. If there are then volcanic armor still has a place for the vanguard, if not then volcanic is only good for weapons. Either way it's not a problem, I would just say something about it in the guide maybe. I would've gone for mithril first if I'd known about this heh.

But I dunno, maybe going down to 15000-20000 density as opposed to ~30k would be good. Still twice as heavy as steel, but not quite as extreme.

Is it possible to put volcanic in the list of materials in the military screen? It not being there is quite annoying.
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5771 on: July 21, 2012, 07:56:23 am »

Hey Meph, I've just discovered a bug with all animalmen that have paws, namely their paws seem to be wierdly attached to their body. For instance they have both hands and paws, as seperate appendages. When you chop off the right arm, or right hand, the right paw remains. pretty wierd right? Look at this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I only noticed this as I got the same problem in my own personal mod and when I went to your mod (looking for inspiration as to a workaround) I found you had the same problem. How do I fix this?? :) Cheers!
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Rumrusher

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5772 on: July 21, 2012, 09:40:51 am »

isn't paw = foot? looks like it connected to the leg.
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5773 on: July 21, 2012, 09:48:32 am »

isn't paw = foot? looks like it connected to the leg.
Oh... Of course... for some reason I assumed it was a hand.. D'oh.... I'm a retard. Hehe ::) I wonder why it isn't working in my own thing then. Looks like it's time to revise some raws :)
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Syuviel

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Re: ☼MASTERWORK☼ Dwarf Fortress - v1.9.3 -Poll about new races
« Reply #5774 on: July 21, 2012, 10:57:59 am »

I don't know how to feel about this.

My gem cutter just made an artifact, a rock crystal bucket. It's encrusted with squares of brilliantly cut... (drum roll please) Rusty Ammo Bundle.
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