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#1: Put the Alarm Siren in the Military Garrison, it fits and is one buildings less.

#1: Keep the Alarm Siren seperate, I want to have it near my other levers.

#2: I have traded with Gnomes, build Artificer and Weather Control Station.

#2: I have NOT traded with Gnomes, did not have the chance to build their buildings.

[Meph]

PS: You might want to create another creature and not use the shades you found in the raws... because they are glass cannons. They shades in the raws die from one hit, but have the "shadow embrace" interaction, which insta-kills any dwarf they touch. They are not balanced for someone to play ^^

They are the start of this, from my to do list:
Shade Civ
 - Glasscannon, dies very quickly.
 - Kills dwarves upon touch.
 - Sends only lone assassins (like kobold thieves, but very late, and more aggresive)
 - Chance to summon Shade Army inside your fort, if you are not vigilant enough.

[Dwarf_Eater]

I think that it's the best to merge guildhalls, unless You are planning on some extra reactions as guildmasters or simply new "ambassadors" could run reaction of requesting blueprints (eg. smiths guildhall "Request weaponry blueprint from mountainhomes" or something like that) for gold or whatever coins.

Other things I am about to write are rather not suitable for dorf but other races.
 Mining: the concept of digging probably for humans, who could not dig in normal way, but their miners would run reaction in Mineshaft of "Dig stone". Which would have about 95% of giving stone and about 5% of finding one of veins. In case of finding vein the reaction would produce "vein location", which would be needed for building eg. "Iron mine", "Copper mine", etc, which reaction of "vein excavation" IF possible (I myself sadly don't have any knowledge about modding ) would have small chance of having high temperature, vapouring the item "vein location", so mine would be deconstructed.

Praying: also probably for humans, but possible for dorfs (praying for armok), which would give same effect as runes, although name instead of "iron rune" would be "Armok blessing of...". Artiffact runed weapon, blessed by Armok himself :O.

Farming: I think it needs more love. For making it more realistic I would nearly completely take it to big workshops, looking like farms, in which starting reaction would automatically run other sub-reactions (sadly dorfs would starve to death if they had to run reaction for month or two ) but it would be possible to make water necessary for some plants to grow and for other not. Moreover some other workshops like "Greenhouse" for producing elven plants as sunberries (but I don't know if it's possible to restrict workshop to surface only) or "Algae farm", as if I recall correctly dfhack lets checking if workshop has water underneath.

And while subject of changing job names is hot, what about merging "archer" and "crossbowman" into ranger (which would also be skill used for guns), and making "archer" skill "exotic fighting" skill? Some kinds of weapons as whips, orkish claws and whatever weapon I don't know just don't fall good into any existing category.

[jaxy15]

How early are possessed dwarves supposed to appear? In my very first migrant wave, I had a three year old show up drawing pentagrams. Luckily managed to cure him before anything bad happened.

[Meph]

Dwarf Eater:
Your mining concept: Check hugo_the_dwarves Regen mod. It is exactly as you describe.
Your Farming concept: Check Phoebus farming mod. He posted it in his tileset thread as well. Again, as you described.
I cant take water as a build mat/reagent. Dwarves are too stupid, they only check for water, not for wells.
Blessed by Armok, on weapons and armors is a fantastic idea. Is added to the todo list.
Workshop to surface only is possible, the code is there, I just need a programmer to actually compile a script with it. But honestly I think farming is fine as it is. It is way better then anything I could mod in.
Dfhack to check if a workshop is build on top of water: DAMN, I could use that for my fishfarm.
Archer skill... mh.. I could theoratically make crossbows use the ranged_weapon skill, instead of crossbow, and free one. Then rename archer to marksdwarf. But it is not a Weapon skill, so the AI wouldnt bring it. No sieges or caravan guards would equip these weapons then.
What I can do it merge spear and pike (never saw the difference to be honest) and (maybe) mace and hammer. I also have MAGIC_NATURE left, which I can name whatever. I actually thought about adding 2 new weapon skills, either "magical weapons" and "technical weapons", or "magical ranged weapons" and "magical melee weapons". Not sure about the names yet, but I can see magic wands/staffs being the magical weapon of choice.
Btw, whips: Lasher skill, claws: Striker skill. I see no problem with those.

I also have the small animal dissector skill free, it has no use atm anyway. But I couldnt find anything thematically fitting, and I didnt want to pack "gunsmith" into the "animal/hunting" section. ^^


@jaxy: NO ONE IS SAFE. Even your starting seven may contain up to 7 possessed dwarves.

[smakemupagus]

I use MAGIC_NATURE for ranged component of magical weapons, and the corresponding melee skill.  So for example,
[NAME:wraithblade:wraithblades][SKILL:SWORD][RANGED:MAGIC_NATURE:SPELLWRAITH]
[NAME:magestaff:magestaves][SKILL:HAMMER][RANGED:MAGIC_NATURE:SPELLDRUID]
I thought that works fine.

The Orcs use ITEM_WEAPON_CLAWS, currently DAGGER skill (I didn't choose it; it's in _masterwork).  It works out nicely that you can transition your veteran clawfighters to the Assassin Society arms if you want.  Other than that I think either DAGGER or GRASP_STRIKE would work fine. 

i agree, whip == lasher (in fact it is even called SKILL:WHIP in the weapon raws).

I think that the current system having BOW, CROSSBOW, and BLOWGUN skill being separate adds an interesting dynamic to managing your ranged squads, I wouldn't get rid of that lightly.  In Orcfort anyway, gun ammo is relatively hard to come by, so if you want a master cannoneer or musketeer you have to work at training him up with a dartgun or pistol.  Likewise in dwarf mode if you get ahold of a crate of greatbows you can't just instantly switch over your crossbow militia.  Making them all the same skill would trivialize those situations too much IMO, it'd be like merging AXE and HAMMER.

RANGED_COMBAT (archer) isn't a good skill to use for any specific weapons, beside the reason Meph gave it also levels up when you use any ranged attack, just like MELEE_COMBAT (fighter).

[Meph]

claws = daggers makes sense, I just had my knuckle duster in my mind, they use striking skill.

Any ideas for the spear/pike=one skill, makes one weapon skill free? Any weapon skill you might lack/want? I thought about these flamethrowers, grenadelobber, steampowered somethings...

[smakemupagus]

Any ideas for the spear/pike=one skill, makes one weapon skill free? Any weapon skill you might lack/want? I thought about these flamethrowers, grenadelobber, steampowered somethings...

Nothing really lacking comes immediately to mind, but I think merging those two is fine.  My versions of "high tech" weapons so far map reasonably onto the existing skills, but if you change it of course I'll think about adapting stuff.

[fire1666]

Heads up on the wshades mod, i have finished the TEIR I weapons and working on TEIR II weapons now.
also shades already exist in the files of masterworks 2.H and they have there own language .
Workshops are only goign to be worked on when i am comfortable with the weapons and eventualy the products e.g. Ghostly blocks and Spectral furnature and workshops, and i might have somone helping me with the pixel art

I WILL NEED SOMEONE TO TAKE OVER WITH MAKING OTHER CASTES, THEY ARE BEYOND MY ABILITY TO CREATE AND BEYOND MY ABILITY TO MAKE REACTIONS THAT CHANGE CASTE.

Hey fire, if you need some help with the workshops and interactions, I might be able to take some of the load off your shoulders if you throw me your notes!

you sir are a god damn champ, if its okie with you i shall but not yet.
i have made
all the teir 1-3 weapons now for the race all, i want to makea  teir 4 and possible a teir 5 / anti-christ level weapons
cloths, armour are after that
I shall inform you guys on this forum about when reactions are gona be started.
Thanks for offouring to help bro it is most apreciated

[SabbyKat]

Way too much work with the vermin... thats for later, when I actually do use vermin for something. But I think you can already catch for example "bog crawlers" and use their extract to poison your ammo/weapons.

SabbyKat, you are my hero. It has been ages since I got a good-ol'-wall-o'-text with suggestions. I actually had the "Scribe" one myself before you posted it. I will see what I can do with the changed names that I know are fine, and set the others apart. I wont change the bowyer for now, since I havent found an elegant solution. But that was exactly my line of thinking: When was the last time someone rejoiced when he saw a group of wood burners, potters, glazers, fish dissectors and potash makers coming along?

Diplomat, or better: Ambassador, would be used in the Embassy, Expedition Outfitter and Expedition Starting Point.
Researcher, or maybe: Inventor(?), should get some more stuff to do.
Architect/Buildings designer has his own workshop in the mod, the Architects Study.
Archeologist has not much do to, granted... even adding more outcomes wouldnt increase the amount of labor he does... any ideas? Maybe restoration of items?
Student makes no sense btw, because the reading books/essays reaction take their own skills... so its only for writing, and Scribe fits perfectly.

If only I could get a good name for the bowyer/ranged weapon maker/gun maker/something something dude.

Please mind that I cant actually control which vanilla reactions they are used for. The Chemist would still make lye, the Alchemists still make potash. I can only change reactions for Craftsdwarf, Kiln, Smelter, Soapmaker, Quern/Millstone, Screw Press.

I actually use blacksmiths and metalcrafters a lot. And even if I rename one of them to Runesmith, this super-magical runesmith would still make the normal chairs and doors... that would be weird.

I am also thinking about double/twin labors. Like Wax&Poison Working. Wax/Poison Worker. It would actually say that ingame, "legendary wax/poison worker". This way I can have my new labor, but dont alienate the old one. Dont know how often that can be done before it looks ridiculous.

About the balancing: Hear you about slade, will be changed.
About harder setting: I cant make them become gradually harder, but the game does it itself already, by making the sieges bigger. I can give them natural skills and better materials, and I planned on 2 or 3 settings. "enable harder invasions" "enable impossible invasions" "enable oh-my-god-please-let-me-die" (not the actual names). I think thats quite easily done.

The cavern appareance I already changed, many version ago But no, caverns still do not accept GOOD/EVIL biome tokens.  I cant mod doors/walls, thats up to exwnent or toady, and internal threats are planned. But they ranked super-low on the last poll, with >500 votes for embassy, guilds and magic, and <100 votes for more enemies.

EDIT: Oh, and splinterz gave me good news, I should be able to add this myself into the therapist init file, that way all this changed stuff gets read out into the Dwarf Therapist correctly.

Hehehe. Yay! I didn't get yelled at for being an annoying pain in the *** this time!

Yep. the Bowyer I see your intent - but yeah... I can't think of a mixture to them. The only plausible outcome I see, would bne to give gun-crafting to metalsmith/blacksmith - but then that still makes Bowyers over-all useless, as you really don't need many crossbows or bolts generally... *scratches head* Hrmph... drawing blanks. fletcher is a better term for him - as that works with arrows, bows, string, etc - but not guns to my understand. Nothing I can recall that's 'common tongue' works with gun creating and bows. Wish I could add SOME ideas, bleh. :/

Researcher/Inventor - now Inventor may be more fitting. Creating of new objects, performing 'experiments' (creating oddities to try and discover new functional blue prints/items to be created/whatever), etc etc. That would likely fit better.

True about the architects study  - but I meant more so, the skill had an impact on building creation. A skilled architect making better walls, increasing value of buildings/floor, etc etc. I know you can't do that. Just seems like a totally pointless skill outside of the workshop (I gotta go play and see what is in the architect study before I can really say that, which I'm doing now ).

Archaeologist ideas? Hmmm... *taps chin* perhaps add in quite rare areas underground that can be dug up over a long period of time, 'ruins' if you will that have various events like huge spoils of loot, horrifying ancient curses that unleash hell inside the fort (imagine one that raised all the dead dwarves in your map - including the ones in your coffins... FUN TIME!), or even do something awesome like reveal some floors of your map above and below it from ancient maps (which is extremely useful to find minerals and such things). Could also add in 'lore blurps' that tell a little tale tied to the games history designed by you, or even your own spin on the story. there's plenty of other things too, like digging up 'mega books' that give +5 to a select skill when read (library, etc) from the 'ancient knowledge'. Hell, you could even make the ruins collapse into passages that lead down many floors into hidden 'dungeon' like features! x.x

Agreed about Scribes, why I pointed it out. I was fairly sure you had the same thought, and were just 'rambling ideas' like I do, why I mentioned it hehehe. And student is used for training units (which is a god awful system ._.)...

Yeah, the Bowyer is kicking me in the ass too. Only word I can find that fits is 'Ranged-smith' or something, but it sounds off...

I agree about the runesmith issue. Why I was weary - it doesn't fit right. Runes are magical 'engraving' - metalcrafting is making metal chairs and beds. Kind of... Apples and Oranges.

Mmm... double-profession seems off. Why would someone make wax (god that skill is so useless. x.x) and poison? Not insulting - it could fit for some, but yep. I wish we could just mod the damn game properly without so many work arounds. I'd love to see what you could do without the restraints hahaha >.<

Glad to hear about Slade. As yeah, it's not 'the best' - but it's superior to steel for cutting edge, and like 100x the weight (which if I recall, does impact the serrated discs and other traps in how well they pierce).

Buwhahahaha. I love the names for difficulty! make sure when you add the 'oh my god let me die!' difficulty, I'm the first to test it. I'll be sure to embark in a killer-rain, undead evil biome to boot, just to make sure it's a good show.

though, what type of difficulty 'changes' would you intend to make? Bigger sieges? more skilled foes? More 'cursed' migrants? More internal threats? more mega beasts/FB? Slower learning/food/etc all rolled into one...?

Damn evil/good tokens! *shakes fist angrily*

So you can't even make certain races able to picklock doors? Damn it. I knew the walls you can't... I hope that update toady is supposedly coming out with, has the new 'siege-walls improvement' I heard mention of. It's really needed. I can totally negate the games threat with 1 year of work in game, by digging a 3 wide trench on the edge of the map - then walling the edge. Nothing but flying races can get over. Even lets me control where trade wagons spawn too. All sieges can do is stand there and go herpaderpa

I think internal threats ranked low mainly as people don't like the challenge of it. They like being sure of themselves, in full control of everything. The thought of having uncontrolled events is not pleasing to most. I'd argue tie it into the difficulty settings you add, really. Makes sense higher difficulty=more dangerous foes, more threats, etc.

Awesome to hear about Dwarf Therapist. I was kind of worried about that, trying to juggle your changes with it could get confusing - but that remedies that concern.

Btw. A fun challenge you should try, is to embark... right into the caverns. No surface building, and all your rooms, facilities, etc, must be in the caverns only. This proved to be... interesting for me. Cavern one is fairly easy if you don't get jynxed by horrible spawns - cavern 2 is thesible with some intelligent play. Cavern 3 i haven't tried, but... yeah. Probably suicidal even for someone like me ;p stuff there is just brutal.

Anyways! Sorry for my ramblings. I'll try to go play and give you some input on various things as normal (that are up to date and relevant! ).

[smakemupagus]

>>   When was the last time someone rejoiced... potters, glazers

Well, I've had surface forts that run on trading pottery.  I agree they're not, like, SUPER awesome, but they're not exactly fish dissectors

[Werdna]

~ Well trained, steel armored dwarves using the library system, the 'abusive spear trap room', or similar tricks to speed up training of dwarves and making them legends, are freakin' GOD MODE. Slap a iridium(orchicalum now?) weapon with all the runes on them, send 5 of them vs 100+ siege, and watch them slaughter 50-60 of the buggers without even a bruise on their body (even against archers). This is speaking of even Frost giants, who just keel over laughably easy. And this isn't using volcanic, 'power armor' or 'candy' either! x.x

I just want to point out that danger rooms are an exploit, and easily result in military skill that is way ahead of the invader power curve, particularly with what the mod offers via library and essences.  I would hate to see invaders tuned with the assumption that we are all playing with danger rooms! 

Personally I find the castes make MWDF too easy, esp. the military castes, and I disable them.  DF rewards specialization and the castes just further specialize dwarves right from the start, essentially giving your military free super-dwarves with each migration wave.  The bonuses are just too good IMHO.  I also found myself fiddling too often in DT, trying to fit the caste to the job, and just didn't enjoy it.  Mostly just personal preference; but Meph please consider tuning down the military caste bonuses if you feel you need to tune invader difficulty.

I am happy for the mithril nerf, I've always felt that mithril is available too early in MWDF and is too cheap to purchase; it gives the military a leg up on the invader curve and ideally a fort should go from crap metal armor -> steel armor -> mithril armor -> uber armor.  I find that by the time I have the steel industry rolling, I've already got enough mithril to just feed the steel directly into welded mithril, so most games it seems like I'm going from copper armor directly to welded mithril.  I'd like to see mithril become more expensive through the traders, as that is the primary source of 'easy' mithril early on (and on some maps, the only source).  I'd like it to be expensive enough where I have to make hard decisions on what to buy, like I already do with prototype golems vs turrets, etc.  Right now its a no-brainer - buy all the cheap mithril bars and anvils, then make the hard financial decisions on turrets and golems and dragons and what not.  (I don't sell food, which I recommend for a challenge)

Since my military is heavily ranged, I'm interested to see how the bolt-nerf works - I'd like to see bone/wood be useless against armor, but I'd also prefer to see it remain effective versus flesh and clothing. 

Process plants: (Rename to process plants to thread, OR "Make thread from pig tail/rope reed")
Process plants (to bag): (Rename to process quarry bush, OR "Make leaves from quarry bush")
Process plants (to barrel): (Rename to process sweet pods, OR "Make syrup from sweet pods")
Process plants (to vial): (Rename to process valley herbs, OR "Make Golden Salve from Valley Herb")

PLEASE!!!  If I had to count how many times I had to crack the wiki open for this damn workshop... 

[smakemupagus]

Process plants: (Rename to process plants to thread, OR "Make thread from pig tail/rope reed")
Process plants (to bag): (Rename to process quarry bush, OR "Make leaves from quarry bush")
Process plants (to barrel): (Rename to process sweet pods, OR "Make syrup from sweet pods")
Process plants (to vial): (Rename to process valley herbs, OR "Make Golden Salve from Valley Herb")

PLEASE!!!  If I had to count how many times I had to crack the wiki open for this damn workshop... 

I dunno.... there's at least a half dozen other plants that get processed at the Farmer's Workshop between Core Masterwork and Orcfort, and literally hundreds in Flora & Fauna.

Searching for: EXTRACT_BARREL
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_fake.txt: 4
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_florafauna_ff.txt: 51
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_orcfort.txt: 4
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_standard.txt: 3
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_trees_ff.txt: 40
Found 102 occurrence(s) in 5 file(s)

Searching for: EXTRACT_VIAL # These are processed at the Farmer's Workshop
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_florafauna_ff.txt: 25
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_orcfort.txt: 1
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_standard.txt: 2
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_trees_ff.txt: 1
Found 29 occurrence(s) in 4 file(s)

Searching for: EXTRACT_STILL_VIAL ### These are processed at the Still
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_florafauna_ff.txt: 10
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_standard.txt: 2
Found 12 occurrence(s) in 2 file(s)

Searching for: LEAVES
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_florafauna_ff.txt: 72
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_orcfort.txt: 2
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_standard.txt: 15
N:\Games\DF\MasterworkDF v2i\Dwarf Fortress\raw\objects\plant_trees_ff.txt: 24

[jonveck]

@SabbyKat

I'm going to channel my grumpy man persona here with regards to your post on balance/difficulty.  So you're saying that by exploiting a Danger Room and making slade trap hallways over 30Z falls make the game too easy and too much of a snooze for you?  That Toady and Meph should rewrite sections of the game because you're not being challenged?  I have to admit:  I really hate complaints like this.  I mean, take some responsibility yourself and make your own challenges.  Danger Rooms too cheaty?  Don't use them.  Slade trap components too good?  Don't use them.  Dodge-exploit pits too effective?  Don't use them.  Just because something exists in the game, doesn't mean you absolutely have to exploit it.  Sure, we could all be adorning every weapon of our exploit trained legionaries with every rune, but we don't have to.  I like to give my squad leaders a "magic weapon" by enchanting it with one rune.  But I also like the fact that I can add additional runes if I want to, like when that squad leader kills an enemy's leader, to make believe he looted a better weapon from his slain foe.

Fallout 3 had a DLC that allowed the player to get a Stealth Suit and I cannot count the number of times someone whined about how it ruined the game because it made it too easy.  And, don't get me wrong:  it was powerful and did make things too easy, which is why I never used it.  But one of my friends loved the Stealth Suit and had a lot of fun with it.  So, should his fun have been limited because those complaining lacked the ability to simply not use an item they found over-powered? 

[Meph]

Well, my plan is this:
One button gives invaders better materials, one tier higher then they have atm.
Another button cycled from 0-10 though natural skills, giving all invaders this skill boost.
Default is: Both options are off.

Sabbykat, most of the suggestions cant be done with modding. At least concerning balancing invaders and archeology. But I have some ideas myself. "Restoration of items" (make found items rather weak, need to be restored), and restoring rusty iron/steel... that would be something for the Archeologist to do.

the Researcher/Inventor could get a workshop, or simply more reactions to his workshop, for reverse engineering. So you get one "great hunter spear" from the elves? Great, now you can copy that design and make more. I could add reactions for every item like that.

But yeah, I have to side with jonveck. If you want it easy, build a wall-in and you are done. Nothing I can do about it. I cant even nerf cage traps. But thats what my GUI is for, people can modify the balancing themselves, to some degree.

@Werdna: Yep. I agree. I even thought about making wolfram, titanium, mithril... all these new metals... completely non-tradeable. That way you have to work for them.

@smake: Good point. But I could still to "Process plant(vial)" to "Extract salve from plants(vial), or "Process plants (to barrel)" to "Extract syrup from plants(barrel)"... I would first check if the names fit, of course.

Oh, and somehow I would like to rename the still to distillery. Or is my english weird again? And cut off all these "Workshop" from the names. Soapmakers Workshop. Tanners Workshop. Masons Workshop... why? Just Soapmaker, Tanner and Mason seems to be fine ^^

[smakemupagus]

@smake: Good point. But I could still to "Process plant(vial)" to "Extract salve from plants(vial), or "Process plants (to barrel)" to "Extract syrup from plants(barrel)"... I would first check if the names fit, of course.

Off the top of my head, the vials also include oils (icicle mint) and fragrances (orchid);
and barrels include a lot of jellies (fruits in orcfort and f&f) and poisons (masterwork)