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Would you read my book?

Yes
- 18 (50%)
No
- 18 (50%)

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Author Topic: Karnewarrior Writes a Book  (Read 3695 times)

Karnewarrior

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Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« on: December 28, 2011, 04:38:33 pm »

So, I'm sure most of you who know me know I like writing. And for the past 3-4 years, I've been gunning for being a professional author.

I'm proud to say I have begun to write a book! Two books, actually, but one in particular I can't stop thinking about to the point where the unwritten book has taken over my youtube playlist.

That being said, I do want to take a general, unofficial survey before getting too deep into it.

Spoiler: Book Idea (click to show/hide)
How do I synopsis?

So question one is if you would read that book if you just found it in a bookstore one day.

Question two is how exactly should I spell words in other languages, especially ones with different writing systems, like Russian. Is it Nyet or Net? Phonetic spelling or something different? I know plenty of you are bilingual, so I could really use your help. Thanks, guys.
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Bdthemag

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2011, 04:43:04 pm »

Not really my cup of tea, the idea (no offense) doesn't seem that creative considering 90% of fiction books meant for teenagers (Which I'm assuming you're making this for, since the main characters are teenagers.) are practically the same kind of story. Group of kids find out they have special powers, bad guys don't like this so they do X to other people. Good guys want to fight bad guy, but have to go retrieve/complete X. Then they fight the bad guy and win.
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Willfor

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2011, 04:44:26 pm »

Introduce the Time Elemental early, and give her a relationship with the other elementals. Lay out her abilities well in advance of when they are needed to prevent a feeling of Deus Ex Machina. If possible, make it seem like she can't defeat the dark elemental without a very clever plan, but don't make this plan too obvious.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2011, 05:00:22 pm »

Introduce the Time Elemental's relative early, and give her a relationship with the other elementals. Lay out her abilities well in advance of when they are needed to prevent a feeling of Deus Ex Machina. If possible, make it seem like she can't defeat the dark elemental without a very clever plan, but don't make this plan too obvious.
Already done. She's going to be in the story from the beginning, and show some displeasure when Dark Elemental starts slaughtering people.

And the Time Elemental isn't actually a "good guy". She's supposed to be more like a greek god in one of their myths; you don't fight them or beg them or try to manipulate them in any way. You back the hell up and hope they don't decide to smite you. Since she'll be forshadowed through the entire book but only show up at the end, not to mention I'll have already shown a willingness to kill main characters, I'm hoping the feel of Deus Ex Machina will be averted, mostly. Or at least feel more like Diabolus ex Machina, with the implication that she's even worse, and far more powerful. (She is)

Not really my cup of tea, the idea (no offense) doesn't seem that creative considering 90% of fiction books meant for teenagers (Which I'm assuming you're making this for, since the main characters are teenagers.) are practically the same kind of story. Group of kids find out they have special powers, bad guys don't like this so they do X to other people. Good guys want to fight bad guy, but have to go retrieve/complete X. Then they fight the bad guy and win.
I know the story's been hashed over and over again. But usually the powers involved aren't literally world breaking. Besides, the book is more about the characters and their reactions to the events around them.

The book is actually for young adults, who've read these stories and wondered what they would do differently. It's a deconstruction of the genre you're talking about, so the large overarcing plotline itself isn't the main drive of the story. Most of the characters are designed to look like Mary Sues at a glance and then have enormous flaws show up at the worst possible time. One is impossibly beautiful and a racist jackass whose megalomania prevents him from letting anyone else be even close to his level. Another is nigh Omniscient but emotionless and hollow, uncaring if his "friends" die or not. Think Twilight but better characterization and loads more testosterone.

Still, I do have another book to fall back on. I can always delay this one until I have a name out.
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Bdthemag

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2011, 05:04:17 pm »

Having your characters be mary sue, but throw in a huge flaw doesn't exactly make them not mary sue anymore. Because they'll still have those amazingly good qualities along with the supposed "major flaw".
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2011, 05:10:51 pm »

Having your characters be mary sue, but throw in a huge flaw doesn't exactly make them not mary sue anymore. Because they'll still have those amazingly good qualities along with the supposed "major flaw".
I didn't mean to say they were Mary Sues. If I did, or I implied it, I'm sorry. They're supposed to look like Mary Sues (incredible powers, beauty/intellect) but have that balanced out by some major flaw (Chronic Hallucinatory Psychosis, Being a emotionless shell of a human being) that balances it out. Not to mention none of them really act like Mary Sues, being far too prone to infighting or making asses of themselves to actually utilize the literally world shattering abilities in any useful manner.

I'm sorry if I'm being too vague, but I'm afraid of putting out my plans in too much detail in case someone nicks them or claims I stole them. I feel like I'm not quite getting the idea across but I'm not sure how to do it without jeprodizing myself legally.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 05:12:35 pm by Karnewarrior »
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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2011, 05:31:32 pm »

I'm terribly sorry, but the first time I read the synopsis/summary thing, I went, "Sailor Moon?" You can line most of them up with the various elements you propose (Light:Venus, Spirit:Moon, Dark:Saturn, etc.), and the inclusion of Time (Pluto) just kinda' hammered it. What you've described has probably been written as fanfiction before, heh...

Also chiming in with Bd; giving characters great power with large flaws is an incredibly difficult tightrope to walk and make decent*, especially with seven major characters. If you're a good enough writer, there's no reason you can't pull it off, but it won't be anything even remotely approaching easy.

The big thing is probably your audience, though. Considering you're talking the folks that consume massive amounts of incredibly shitty fanfiction and largely squee gleefully about it, you can probably get away with letting quality slide a bit.

I guess what I'd suggest is try to do those smaller books (say 100ish pages; about 60-100k words, iirc) and break those two books into five or six. Get the first part's manuscript done, then see if you can get a publisher to bite. This is caveatted by having absolutely zero familiarity with the actual publishing process, so...

Anyway, as unofficial survey goes, I personally wouldn't pick it up off the shelf unless someone recommended it highly, but folks like myself (Who primarily read non-commercial fiction or, if dipping into actually published stuff, stick to used book stores) aren't who you're after. It's the folks who bought Twilight you want.

... I have absolutely no ability to connect with their thought processes :P

*I've consumed massive amounts of fanfiction. I've seen this premise go south dozens, if not hundreds of times. Possibly thousands :-\ It can be good, just like almost all well-written stories, s'just... thats one of those proverbial recipes for (literary) disaster.

I ended up writing a lot more than I thought I would in response, yikes.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 05:39:19 pm by Frumple »
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2011, 06:01:23 pm »

By two books I meant I have two completely disseparate stories. The other is a very simple inversion of the Close Encounter-type sci-fi bit, with a bit of american colonization theme thrown in for flavor. That one sort of has a downer ending too; The alien homeworld get's completely smashed.

The one I'm talking about here though began as Session Seven and morphed out of being a Homestuck Fanfiction into a partially developed plotline.

I'm terribly sorry, but the first time I read the synopsis/summary thing, I went, "Sailor Moon?" You can line most of them up with the various elements you propose (Light:Venus, Spirit:Moon, Dark:Saturn, etc.), and the inclusion of Time (Pluto) just kinda' hammered it. What you've described has probably been written as fanfiction before, heh...

Also chiming in with Bd; giving characters great power with large flaws is an incredibly difficult tightrope to walk and make decent*, especially with seven major characters. If you're a good enough writer, there's no reason you can't pull it off, but it won't be anything even remotely approaching easy.

The big thing is probably your audience, though. Considering you're talking the folks that consume massive amounts of incredibly shitty fanfiction and largely squee gleefully about it, you can probably get away with letting quality slide a bit.

*I've consumed massive amounts of fanfiction. I've seen this premise go south dozens, if not hundreds of times. Possibly thousands :-\ It can be good, just like almost all well-written stories, s'just... thats one of those proverbial recipes for (literary) disaster.


I've never watched Sailor Moon, so I wouldn't know. Wouldn't that be nine, though?

I was actually planning on aiming just past the Twilight portion, to people who used to read that stuff but eventually got fed up. It's supposed to be like someone rewrote Half-life: Full Life Consequences into a full blown, well written story, but kept enough of the original premise that the two reconciled neatly. Something that makes them go "This is how it should have been written!"

And I know it won't be easy. Frankly this is the only story I've managed to write past Page 7-8 without getting writers block and becoming unable to start the plot. I'm sure that if I can get even one story to completeion, the rest will be easier and better. I'm hoping for this to be the one that breaks past the barrier.
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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 06:04:23 pm »

Wouldn't read it.  It's basically the plot of every single B/C magical girl manga ever, and a lot of western stuff at this point, too.

I'm not interested enough in that sort of story to want a deconstruction.  Sorry.
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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 06:09:36 pm »

A set of seven teenagers (18,17,16,16,15,14,14) are given incredible power over "elemental forces"

Again, really? Couldn't we have seven elements having incredible powers over teenagers, so that these deity like figures must try to manipulate otherwise normal kids into cold blooded killers and use them as pawns in their sick game of chess?

... IDEA IS MINE! STAY OFF IT!!!

Sorry, just messing around.  :P Anyway, you missed the creative projects forum. This  should go there.

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 06:30:24 pm »

I would have been interested when I was younger, but you'd need some sort of hook to stand out in the crowd. On the other hand, I think which books I fell for as a youngster might have been more down to luck than actual content.

Anyway. I say that you should try to write it regardless. The best way to train writing books is to actually write books, after all. Explore the characters and the story, find out whether there's a book there or just ideas. Not to mention getting a feel for what writing a book is like. It's quite an undertaking, after all. Kind of like a marriage. Except nothing's stopping you from cheating with those pretty young novellettes.
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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 06:38:37 pm »

I like it.  I'd definitely read the back of the book, and read the whole first chapter to give it a fair chance to hook me into the story.  Personally, I think what it really comes down to is how much time and effort you'll put into making the story work.  And by "work" I mean work out plot holes, bad personalities, awkward phrasing, pretty much anything that kills immersion.  I'll list my own nitpicks, but I don't want to discourage you.  You're the writer after all, not me.

1. Don't even hint at anyone being a Mary Sue.  Simply give them good personalities and move on :)  Don't rely on psychological problems.  Problems do not equal personalities.  HOW a person approaches and solves a problem defines their personality.

2. Seven teenagers among the ages of "18,17,16,16,15,14,14" is going to have a lot of interpersonal drama.  Are they working together?  Do they like each other?  Do they have crushes on each other?  Do they share certain interests?  Not all of them can be mature, how many (if any) will see past the ensuing drama?  How do the 14s deal with the 18?  Do they worship him/her, or distrust them for being an adult?  All of these kids will still be heavily influenced by their parents.  Is one of them gay?  Is one of them religious?  You've pretty much struck a gold mine when it comes to possibilities here.  But, you have to manage it all too, otherwise the story will lose credibility.  Also, the characters simply aren't going to work as a cohesive group, even adults can't manage simple group projects in smaller numbers.  Which is a plus.  On one hand, they'll be trying to save the world from an overpowering evil, while trying to not wring each others necks.

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 06:40:54 pm »

A set of seven teenagers (18,17,16,16,15,14,14) are given incredible power over "elemental forces"

Again, really? Couldn't we have seven elements having incredible powers over teenagers, so that these deity like figures must try to manipulate otherwise normal kids into cold blooded killers and use them as pawns in their sick game of chess?

... IDEA IS MINE! STAY OFF IT!!!


... I honestly like this idea better than OP's
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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 06:43:57 pm »

Wouldn't read it, too generic. You need a better story, especially if you want to get published.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Karnewarrior Writes a Book
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 10:06:59 pm »

I like it.  I'd definitely read the back of the book, and read the whole first chapter to give it a fair chance to hook me into the story.  Personally, I think what it really comes down to is how much time and effort you'll put into making the story work.  And by "work" I mean work out plot holes, bad personalities, awkward phrasing, pretty much anything that kills immersion.  I'll list my own nitpicks, but I don't want to discourage you.  You're the writer after all, not me.
Heh. Discouragement is sorta what this thread is for; to find out which audience I'm hitting. Am I going for the younger, average person, or a more mature, advanced reader? Thus far it looks like the former. Of course, I'm not exactly doing a great job of describing it, but I've stated my reasons for that and they can't be helped.

Quote
1. Don't even hint at anyone being a Mary Sue.  Simply give them good personalities and move on :)  Don't rely on psychological problems.  Problems do not equal personalities.  HOW a person approaches and solves a problem defines their personality.
I know. And this is something I don't have a reason for not describing properly, besides I screwed up.

  Each kid has a very vibrant personality, usually relating back to their element. For example, the Air elemental is sort of flighty and air-headed, but she's accepting of her situation and finds it easy to mold herself to a new situation. Her boyfriend, on the other hand, is brash and hot-blooded, while being a total casanova and not entirely faithful. Said adaptation means Airhead gets somewhat Tsundre to keep asanova in line, which conflicts with the other girls, who were never trying for him in the first place ('cause he's a douche), especially since one is not only a devout, faithful girl but also a closeted homosexual.
  Another is almost robotic, ever so slightly sadistic, and snarky. Since he's not only the most useless and has the most minor flaws but is also likely to get under everyones skin, he's the first to be offed in the name of plot. His main reason is to kickstart the storyline and then be a sacrifice to show off just how evil the villianess is. Much like the nice, adorable Spirit Elemental, his main job is to be a catalyst to drive the tension forward, and his personality reflects that. He's highly analytical to the point where it wouldn't be unexpected for a few of his xanatos gambits to keep moving well into the future, but since he didn't plan his own death into most of them, they start to fall apart and do things he didn't mean for them to do. He's also the one who contacted them all in the first place and brought them together, an issue I was having trouble with in the early stages.
  The Villianess deserves special mention; I've been working on her for longer than any of the other characters.


The main issue with takeing Villianess down isn't her power; or the fact that they don't even know what's going on (although that's a big part). The issue here is that the group have serious issues they need to work out before any serious teamwork gets done, especially now that they have superpowers. It only exaggerates their personalities, along with their issues. The Airhead, especially, has a group-effecting issue; she can't function without her medicine, and she runs out halfway through. She grows more and more paranoid, and eventually has to resort to some very unconventional and very dangerous procedures simply to be able to function.

Quote
2. Seven teenagers among the ages of "18,17,16,16,15,14,14" is going to have a lot of interpersonal drama.  Are they working together?  Do they like each other?  Do they have crushes on each other?  Do they share certain interests?  Not all of them can be mature, how many (if any) will see past the ensuing drama?  How do the 14s deal with the 18?  Do they worship him/her, or distrust them for being an adult?  All of these kids will still be heavily influenced by their parents.  Is one of them gay?  Is one of them religious?  You've pretty much struck a gold mine when it comes to possibilities here.  But, you have to manage it all too, otherwise the story will lose credibility.  Also, the characters simply aren't going to work as a cohesive group, even adults can't manage simple group projects in smaller numbers.  Which is a plus.  On one hand, they'll be trying to save the world from an overpowering evil, while trying to not wring each others necks.

Oh they'll have some issues. Not just the ones stated above (murdering psychopath and Casanova loverboy can really grind on people when mixed) but others related to their backstories and coming to terms with what they were. To be honest, they won't actually come fully to terms with who they are. The lesbian stays in the closet, The Jackass remains a Jackass, the Slow Thinker doesn't speed up an inch, and the dead girl becomes really creepily into dead things and dying.

Damn this is a long post. I hope this is helping.

A set of seven teenagers (18,17,16,16,15,14,14) are given incredible power over "elemental forces"

Again, really? Couldn't we have seven elements having incredible powers over teenagers, so that these deity like figures must try to manipulate otherwise normal kids into cold blooded killers and use them as pawns in their sick game of chess?

... IDEA IS MINE! STAY OFF IT!!!


... I honestly like this idea better than OP's

...I honestly agree. But I don't think I could write that complicated of a story. Seven characters in this one, total. Everyone else is dead. The fifth-most important man in the story is a airport attendant in Russia. Everyone else is a main character or far away.
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Thou art I, I art Thou.
The trust you have bestowed upon thy comrade is now reciprocated in turn.
Thou shall be blessed when calling upon personae of the Hangman Arcana.
May this tie bind thee to a brighter future!​
Ikusaba Quest! - Fistfighting space robots for the benefit of your familial bonds to Satan is passe, so you call Sherlock Holmes and ask her to pop by.
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