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Author Topic: Building an Urban Fantasy World  (Read 1937 times)

MorleyDev

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Building an Urban Fantasy World
« on: December 27, 2011, 02:30:20 pm »

So I've had some ideas for an urban fantasy setting and am tempted to set a few short stories in it, to build it up more and see how if it works for stories. But first I'd like to get some opinions on these ideas, plus this is just an interesting subject of discussion. The world I'm coming up with is kind of like a cross of World of Darkness, H.P. Lovecraft and hints of The Dresden Files.

Magic) Magic is more primitive, a kind of proto-magic.

My first idea stems from something that came to me: Why do wizards throw fireballs? What I mean is, why do they use fire as an offensive weapon? There's drama and symbolism there, sure, but from a practical point of view wouldn't a greater weapon be heat? Wouldn't it be easier for a wizard to superheat a small area of space than funnel it into a ball of flames? This is where my proto-magic idea came in, what if magic wizards use in the urban fantasy setting was just "manipulation of energy" (physics simplifications ftw!)? The ability to move and contain (for lack of a better word) the energy in particles.

Want to burn something to death, superheat the area in front of you which the something is standing it.
Want to freeze something, "move the energy" out of an area in order to lower the temperature to freezing.

So this proto-magic makes magic very powerful, whilst also making it require author and character have to be clever to figure out ways of using it effectively. It also solves the "why not just magic everything better?" problem by making magic a very focused, limited field.

Price Vampires Pay) Some of the downsides for Vampires. Obviously I have some more ideas about vampires in the world (like whether they bite or scratch and lick ;D), but I want to go into the downsides first partly because I feel it's the most "unique" of the ideas.

Super Strength: What if your body isn't as capable as your brain is telling you? So vampires have to learn to control themselves and recognise the new limits of their bodies. For example, the first time a vampire tries to run, they probably tear their leg muscles.

Super Perception: This idea I really like, namely give vampires a reason and an associated curse with super perception. The idea is that a vampires perception is a result of their brain being in such a state of overdrive, that they effectively experience several seconds (let's say 10) for every 1 second that passes. This gives them longer to process everything happening. Now, why is this a downside? Well, imagine if every 1 hour film you had to sit through, actually lasted 10 hours. Every word took ten words time to hear. Living in permanent slow motion would not be pleasant, emotions would come and go past so quickly to others it'd be like they never happened at all whilst sensations would last so long you'd get used to them, conversations would be unbearably slow and boring, life would be...hell, quite simply.

Transformation: The process of being turned into a vampire should not be a pleasant one. In fact, it should be painful. Your body is being drastically altered, after all. Well, what if the transformation was also malicious? So I started thinking, how could it be malicious? What if it left one completely immobile whilst also preventing unconsciousness and death? The vampire-to-be would have to experience every second of their transformation, experience enough pain to cause a person to die a thousand times, and have no escape, no embrace of darkness to free them. And depending on how lucky the vampire is, it could end in a few minutes or it could go on for hours or days. Is it possible to step through to the other side, and retain anything of who they once were? To even remain sane?

Ghouls) A ghoul in this world would come in two flavours
1 - Someone infected with vampirism but dies a few days before transforming or during the transformation (is killed but not enough for the transformation to not finish) is still transformed into a vampire, but with none of the person they were in that body. Instead, they become ghouls: Rabid beast of pure instinct that live to feed and kill and repeat until they are stopped. The idea in folklore of a ghoul or vampire digging themselves out of their own grave, and then returning to that grave, both come from these creatures.
2 - Someone whose mind is so damaged by the pain of transforming, they lose all of who they were and go so insane as to effectively be the same as the 1st type of ghoul although some retain some of basic reasoning and intellect remaining. Practically they are like 1 but with more intelligence, meaning they are more dangerous.

Both release a pheromone which other vampires can detect, and unnerves them enough to compel nearby vampires to seek and kill them.

Ghosts) An idea I am somewhat fighting with since I'm straying into Energy Can Do Anything! I'll probably leave any explanation as the "rough theory" being dolled out by someone only somewhat educated on the topic.

A person can either with knowledge or dumb luck, often when dying or being killed, create a kind of "construct" which is essentially an energy copy of themselves, their personality and traits. A ghost isn't the original person who died, they're simply gone, but a kind of 'imprint' of them left in the world. This imprint can have varying levels of sentience, being anything from creatures of anger and hate to effectively that person but in a less material form. They would essentially exist as a series of interactions between energies created in a specific way so as to manifest as if they were the original person.

However, as time goes on that energy slowly disperses into the surrounding world, causing the ghost to decay. Actually influencing the surrounding world requires them to expend some energy too, hastening the decay. Their powers and ability to influence the world weakens, and even the sanity of the ghost deteriorates into a much more base, primal personality. Eventually, they'll fade into nothingness.

Ghosts, especially the ghosts of wizards or warlocks created with preparation, can learn to take energy from the world and maintain themselves (Ghosts who can do this are what causes the "sensation of cold" reported on all those TV shows ^^).

Like I said, so far it's a topic I'm a bit vague on how I'll make it fit, it being a copy of the person in the "magical energies" mage-users work with seems the best I can come up with...

Common themes) In case you can't to tell by how I'm torturing vampires here, a theme I want to touch is the costs of immortality on the minds of those who seek or obtain it. Live long enough and everyone would eventually go insane. Imagine if you had thousands of years of life barking at your heels? Sanity amongst the eldest of the "once human" immortals at least would be a rarity, they'd all have some significant flaws and neurosis from their childhoods and adulthoods that time had only worsened.

*****************

I'll post more of my ideas later, and expand on vampires more, but for now I'd like some feedback on these ideas.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 07:31:20 pm by MorleyDev »
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klingon13524

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 04:06:49 pm »

The super perception thing seems a bit iffy, especially considering most vampires live for millenia. Speaking of which, how long do vampires live in this universe?
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MorleyDev

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 05:15:03 pm »

I'm thinking of the "theoretically forever, but most find violent ends long before then and the rest are detached and psychopathic" rout. I just went for the 10:1 for maths, not really sure of the exact number (probably more like 2 or 1.903248whatever xD) but I wanted something other than "lived too long" or "vampires are automatically evil because...souls n stuff" to explain why a vampire might go a little crazy/psychopathic. Boredom from being able to think 3 thoughts in the time it takes the person next to you to think one seemed like a good one :P
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LordBucket

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 05:31:42 pm »

Why do wizards throw fireballs? What I mean is,
why do they use fire as an offensive weapon?

Because authors are generally as dumb as their audience. A lot of modern fantasy themes are based on the works of two men in particular: Gary Gygax and Stan Lee. Both of whom were, shall we say...not very well grounded in things like common sense or physics.

And once established, tropes/memes are sometimes hard to kill.

Quote
what if magic wizards use in the urban fantasy setting was
just "manipulation of energy" (physics simplifications ftw!)?

Ok. That's fine. But if you're going to go there, then go all the way. Throw out everything that's come before and create a new setting independant of the 98% of nonsense that's out there.

Quote
It also solves the "why not just magic everything better?"
problem by making magic a very focused, limited field.

Ok...but consider very carefully just how much you'd need to limit magic by avoid those problems. A clever person with the single ability to telekinetically apply one pound of force with a line of sight limitation could very easily take over the modern world.

Quote
Super Strength: What if your body isn't as capable as your brain is telling you? So vampires have to learn to control themselves and recognise the new limits of their bodies. For example, the first time a vampire tries to run, they probably tear their leg muscles.

See Required Secondary Powers.

I think it's reasonable to give vampires suitably strong tendons and ligaments along with their muscles. A more suitable way to limit it would be to simply consider issues such as leverage, inertia, friction etc. Your super fast running vampire might remain more or less stationary while shredding the carpet beneath him. Someone with the strength to pick up a tank might be more likely to burrow himself into the ground. Someone attempting to fly under an airplane to move it might be more likely to poke a hole in it. Etc.

Quote
a theme I want to touch is the costs of immortality
on the minds of those who seek or obtain it.

Insanity seems like a bit of a cop out to me. Some might go insane, but time tends to heal emotional wounds, and it seems likely that a good portion of immortals would have had time to mellow out and get over their personal problems.

I would think immortals would rather than simply going insane, tend towards Blue and Orange Morality. Writing for such a character is possible, but it falls on you as the author to personally step outside of your own familiar worldview.

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Imagine if you had thousands of years of life barking at your heels?

Yes. Imagine it. Imagine that you've fallen off buildings and been in car crashes and had limbs sliced off...but you don't die and simply regenerate from your injuries. What would life be like with no fear of injury? People enjoy things like skydiving and bunjee jumping because of the thrill it gives them. If you're immortal, why not do these things, but skip the bunjee cord and parachute? It will heal.

How much of your own personal life, how much of your anger, strife, angsst, misery...all of your unplesant emotions, how much of that is motivated by fear? You need money to buy food so you have to put up with a boss you don't like. You don't want to be alone so you make compromises and sacrifices to keep your girlfriend with you. What would life be like without any of these anxieties? You don't need to put up with traffic. You don't need to work a job, or wear clothes you don't like. You don't need to do anything you don't want to, don't need to put up with any social expectations whatsoever.

Random thug on the street shoots you. Do you go into a vengeful fury and tear him to pieces...or do you simply keep walking because it will heal and you have more important things to do? After all, he'll be dead in a mere 60 years or so. Why bother killing him now?

Think very carefully about how many of your decisions are motivated by fear and anxiety. Imagine having no fear of injury, no fear of death, no fear of hunger, no anxiety over social expectations...why would such a person worry over life "barking" at them?


MorleyDev

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 05:46:13 pm »

Actually you're largely going with my thought process with that. By insane I'm thinking Anti-Social Personality Disorder more than Schizophrenia. How much of what we do IS driven by fear? Not the bad, but the good. If you no longer feared it, had nothing to stimulate that adrenaline rush, you wouldn't enjoy bungee jumping. If you didn't want to avoid punishment and social reprisal, you'd most likely commit wanton acts of criminality and cruelty because hey, you'll get away with it. THAT is what I'm thinking of when I think of the insanity of the immortals, boredom and a lack of fear do not mix well..

An idea I was working with for the super strength isn't really 'super', they'd be just a bit more muscular by nature. I didn't really explain it well here (would have to go in more detail in an actual story I guess, if I was gonna explain it), but the reason they snap their tendons would be their brain stops telling them to cut off, it's like a mother pushing aside a car if her child is in danger and risking breaking her arm in doing so. Normally her body would stop it with pain, but the adrenaline rush (or in this case, simply the alterations made by vampirism) stops that response, so the vampires have to learn the control to recognise their own limits because their body has stopped telling them.

That's my idea: They are a bit stronger than people, not too much, but their body isn't telling them quite how much so at first they tend to overshoot the mark. They're in a world of cardboard, their own bodies included.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:01:06 pm by MorleyDev »
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Willfor

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 06:07:03 pm »

Why do wizards throw fireballs? What I mean is,
why do they use fire as an offensive weapon?

Because authors are generally as dumb as their audience. A lot of modern fantasy themes are based on the works of two men in particular: Gary Gygax and Stan Lee. Both of whom were, shall we say...not very well grounded in things like common sense or physics.

And once established, tropes/memes are sometimes hard to kill.
Try reading some actual modern fantasy.
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LordBucket

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 06:09:19 pm »

If you no longer feared it, had nothing to stimulate that
adrenaline rush, you wouldn't enjoy bungee jumping.

Chemicals in the bloodstream is not the same as emotion.

Quote
If you didn't want to avoid punishment and social reprisal, you'd most likely commit
wanton acts of criminality and cruelty because hey, you'll get away with it.

Why?

Oh, sure...I agree that such a person would not have much reason to be fettered by fear of reprisal. But I think it's inaccurate to suggest that fear of reprisal is the only thing stopping people from acts of this sort. If I had absolute 100% certainty of avoiding both social stigma and criminal punishment, I still would be unlikely to go out hurting people just for the sake of hurting people. I wouldn't enjoy it so I wouldn't do it. There's nothing about immortality that would suddenly make people enjoy hurting others.

Oh, I might rob a bank to quickly get money to enjoy the next few hundred years in comfort. I might set myself up as a god and collect a harem of worshippers. But I wouldn't suddenly take up beheading kittens as a hobby.

Quote
nothing to stimulate that adrenaline rush, you wouldn't enjoy bungee jumping

If you want to look at it that way, the same would apply to your wanton acts of cruelty. If a vampire in your world is incapable of enjoying bunjee jumping, why would they enjoy torturing people in their basement?

The Unfettered is likely to be Above Good and Evil. They might be willing to squash people beneath their hells to accomplish their goals. But for a creature who has eternity to work with, squashing people for the sake of squashing them seems very small minded.




LordBucket

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 06:13:06 pm »

Try reading some actual modern fantasy.

A counterexample does not contradict a trend. Yes, counterexamples exist. Nevertheless, a lot of fantasy works are based in antiquated and nonsensical ideas.

MorleyDev

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 06:17:47 pm »

Chemicals in the bloodstream is not the same as emotion.

Huh, odd I thought that's exactly what emotions are. Well, okay mostly chemicals located in the brain but still...

Quote
Oh, I might rob a bank to quickly get money to enjoy the next few hundred years in comfort. I might set myself up as a god and collect a harem of worshippers. But I wouldn't suddenly take up beheading kittens as a hobby.

That was my point, no fear means you have nothing stopping you from acting on the thoughts of "hey I need money...maybe I should rob this bank!" whereas previously you'd dismiss that as a stupid idea because you know and fear the consequences, "Hey, this guy has money, I could rob him. Huh, can't take the chance he saw my face, best if I kill him!". Pragmatic cruelty is still cruelty. Okay, I may be using wanton wrongly there (I guess it's not unprovoked if it's provoked by need of money) but still, you'd be committing acts of cruelty and criminality.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:23:05 pm by MorleyDev »
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Willfor

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 06:22:56 pm »

A counterexample does not contradict a trend. Yes, counterexamples exist. Nevertheless, a lot of fantasy works are based in antiquated and nonsensical ideas.

The thing is, you are perpetuating old information that is rapidly being outdated, and giving the impression that there is nothing worth reading from a modern author. This concept is rapidly becoming a thing of the past as we get more and more fantasy authors -- and more and more fantasy fans -- who are reacting against the standard fantasy setting. I gave you six examples of non-standard fantasy works that are the tip of an iceberg, and I could start pointing out even more.
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In the wells of livestock vans with shells and garden sands /
Iron mixed with oxygen as per the laws of chemistry and chance /
A shape was roughly human, it was only roughly human /
Apparition eyes / Apparition eyes / Knock, apparition, knock / Eyes, apparition eyes /

LordBucket

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 06:34:14 pm »

I thought that's exactly what emotions are. Well, okay mostly
chemicals located in the brain but still...

If you believe that, then your worldview is fundamentally different than mine.

Are you saying that a non-physical creature is incapable of having emotion?

Quote
no fear means you have nothing stopping you from acting on the
thoughts of "hey I need money...maybe I should rob this bank!"

Yes, but it also means walking into a company's corporate office and through a wall to calmly inform the CEO that his recent product "innovations" are dumb, and to offer advice on how to improve them. It means walking through gunfire to get to a donut store, because you really wanted a donut. It means tracking down your high school girlfriend decades later to ask her on a date despite her being married and with children because you know she'll be dead soon, and those other things don't really matter. And it doesn't necessarily mean kidnapping her if she says no.

"No fear" allows for the exploration of a lot of possibilities other than merely theft and violence.

Willfor

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 06:38:22 pm »

I thought that's exactly what emotions are. Well, okay mostly
chemicals located in the brain but still...

If you believe that, then your worldview is fundamentally different than mine.

Are you saying that a non-physical creature is incapable of having emotion?
1) How is he denying that by asserting the scientific explanation for emotions in physical creatures?

2) How are you making assertions that modern fantasy writers are nonsensical when you are rejecting actual science?
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In the wells of livestock vans with shells and garden sands /
Iron mixed with oxygen as per the laws of chemistry and chance /
A shape was roughly human, it was only roughly human /
Apparition eyes / Apparition eyes / Knock, apparition, knock / Eyes, apparition eyes /

MorleyDev

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 06:48:27 pm »

Depends on what you call emotions. They're a name we give the appearance of specific phenomena, the underlying cause of which I regard in humans to be processes located in the body. In short, I don't have any belief in the supernatural or spiritual ^^

As for the fear thing, to quote Polaschek: "But there probably isn't such a thing as a harmless psychopath. People who live for themselves and for the day will tend to blunder around, causing harm to people - because that's not how society works."

My idea is with the eventual boredom of experiencing the same basic sensations for centuries, and seeing everybody else die with no escape for yourself, would promote such a "live for yourself and the day" personality, which is fine for that person but ultimately would leave them alone even amongst other people. With Vampires I want to explore some other things too, and also make them clearly "not the way" for anyone well informed seeking immortality.

When I get to them (probably tomorrow since it's getting late now and I'm sleepy), I'll explain Werewolves are going to be my way of exploring addictions and power, and Ghosts the concept of the "self".
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:56:10 pm by MorleyDev »
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LordBucket

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2011, 06:56:21 pm »


You're either an idiot or a troll. This will be my last response to you.

Quote
1) How is he denying that by asserting the scientific
explanation for emotions in physical creatures?

He suggested that emotions are chemicals in the bloodstream or brain. If so, then it follows that a creature without blood or a brain would not be able to experience emotion.


Quote
2) How are you making assertions that modern fantasy
writers are nonsensical when you are rejecting actual science?

Non-sequitor.

1) You are mischaracterizing what I said into an assertion I did not make
2) I have not "rejected science."

My response to you is thus:

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Since this will be my last reply to you, I suggest you reply to this post with some sort of similarly stupid response that will allow you to feel really good about yourself. I won't reply to it, you'll feel like you "won" and I won't have to put up with you anymore.

Everyone wins.

MorleyDev

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Re: Building an Urban Fantasy World
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 07:03:34 pm »

He suggested that emotions are chemicals in the bloodstream or brain. If so, then it follows that a creature without blood or a brain would not be able to experience emotion.

Define emotion. I'm saying the processes that cause what are called emotions are located in our bodies and brains, and in my rather science-based world view we are our bodies and brains (I don't believe in a soul). Now, a "ghost" (if such a thing existed) or other "non-physical beings" (if such things existed) could display things similar to what humans display which we call emotions, and such things could be called emotions. They wouldn't be the same internally as our emotions, but the external display would be the same.

Of course since, as I said, I don't believe in ghosts or souls, it's kinda a moot point as far as I'm concerned.
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