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[Luke_Prowler]

but they have the same result: you're getting something for nothing, but at least the theif actually put some effort into it.

Not quite the same result. One always deprives someone of something, and the other has a chance of depriving them of potential. Part of the result is the same, but not the whole thing.

I actually wanted to use a different word, but I couldn't remember how it was spelled and I didn't feel like digging out the thesaurus 

Main problem with that is that a sufficiently obnoxious pirate who makes a preposterous number of copies doesn't reduce their value for anybody with the genuine thing.

...except that pirate copies are often free of the absurd DRM schemes that can make using legitimate copies pretty damn annoying. Shit, this is a really good analogy.

The increase in piracy (though in truth that's not the only reason) has lead into an increase of price, but more importantly it devalues the effort of the people that made the original.

[G-Flex]

The increase in piracy (though in truth that's not the only reason) has lead into an increase of price

Are you sure about this? If anything, something being easier to pirate would imply to me that people would be willing to pay less for it. If I know I could get something for free, I'm less willing to pay an exorbitant price, whereas if piracy is impossible, I'm more willing to pay whatever they want to charge.

[Nadaka]

No it returning stolen goods to society. The right to copy belongs to everyone. And that right is restricted by copyright law. And that is conceptually, morally and in the long term literally equivalent to theft.

Rights are not something that is held. You are not born with arms and legs and rights. They are not a property of yourself to be stunted or removed or altered.

That is the god damned definition of a fucking right. You are born with it. You have it. It is yours. And it can only be removed by force. And the threat of force very much can infringe on your free expression of your rights. Any attempt at casting rights in any other light is an attempt to corrupt language and intentionally prevent people from even knowing what rights are, so that they won't understand when they are being infringed.

[Luke_Prowler]

The increase in piracy (though in truth that's not the only reason) has lead into an increase of price

Are you sure about this? If anything, something being easier to pirate would imply to me that people would be willing to pay less for it. If I know I could get something for free, I'm less willing to pay an exorbitant price, whereas if piracy is impossible, I'm more willing to pay whatever they want to charge.

I more meant that the lost of sales has caused companies to increase the price tag of games

[G-Flex]

That's pretty clearly what you meant, but I'm not convinced that it's true, nor is it easy to determine how much sales have dropped off to begin with due to piracy.

[Vattic]

MetalSlimeHunt even though I disagree that it's theft I can see the similarities in how pirating something deprives the IP holder of money the pirate would have spent if they'd not pirated it. Would you still say it's theft if the pirate would never have bought a copy in the first place?

That is the god damned definition of a fucking right. You are born with it. You have it. It is yours. And it can only be removed by force. And the threat of force very much can infringe on your free expression of your rights. Any attempt at casting rights in any other light is an attempt to corrupt language and intentionally prevent people from even knowing what rights are, so that they won't understand when they are being infringed.

Some rights can be voluntarily be given up. I work with people who have signed a waiver so that they can work more hours than the legally set maximum.

[Fenrir]

That is the god damned definition of a fucking right. You are born with it. You have it. It is yours. And it can only be removed by force. And the threat of force very much can infringe on your free expression of your rights. Any attempt at casting rights in any other light is an attempt to corrupt language and intentionally prevent people from even knowing what rights are, so that they won't understand when they are being infringed.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. What do you mean when you say ‘right’? There are legal rights, such activities as the law permits, and I assume use of the word ‘right’ in any other context would mean any such things as one feels one should not be obstructed from doing. That would mean that they can not be stolen, but one can feel that one has been prevented from doing something that one should not be prevented from doing.

If you were speaking more metaphorically than I thought, or I otherwise misundertood, I apologize.

[Luke_Prowler]

That's pretty clearly what you meant, but I'm not convinced that it's true, nor is it easy to determine how much sales have dropped off to begin with due to piracy.

Well, true, I'm no expert in terms of economics. Piracy does show that people will play the game for less (free, actually) and if you reduce the price then piracy will probably lessen but not stop it completely (there are people who pirated the humble indie bundle). But the thing is if it's an issue of money, you can always buy used, wait for sales, save money, or buy a similar but cheaper game (Bastion is an action-adventure game like Skyward Sword, but Bastion is $15 on steam).

[Vattic]

But who is losing out of someone who can't afford or perhaps even buy a game in their region pirates it? I say everyone gains through piracy in these situations: the player gets to play and the IP owners get a wider audience.

[ToonyMan]

No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me.

[Darvi]

What if there's no other way to get something in any way other than piracy (at a reasonable price that is. No way somebody's gonna pay fifty bucks or so just for importing something from over the ocean)?

[Luke_Prowler]

Eh, it's stuff like that that makes the whole situation muddled. There's also "What if I pirate something that the owner is no longer making a profit on but hasn't entered public domain yet?".

[Truean]

Imagine you actually sat down and really thought out a novel. It was decent and not some hack product from chopping up old books and gluing them together. Then imagine you spent a year writing that novel. You churned out 1000 pages and left room of possible sequels as a series. You gave up a lot to create it and publish it. Then someone else takes it and publishes it without so much as acknowledging you at all. They get rich off your labors, not appreciating or acknowledging any of them. People love your work, but don't even know you did it. You die in obscurity, quite broke. Fair?

[MorleyDev]

Piracy is prevalent because it's easier and cheaper than not pirating. I reckon a lot of pirates and former pirates will use Steam instead of torrents, because Steam is easier than pirating. Likewise, Spotify back it's when free-with-ads a decent service, was very popular amongst "music pirates".

The problem is steam invalidates a lot of where publishers get money from, and ads (Spotify) doesn't give them £7 per person per album like some music downloads. The industry needs to evolve. Digital goods should not be charging equal amounts as the physical alternative, otherwise the digital good just seems overpriced. Internet connections need to improve so streaming and digital distribution services become viable ways for the majority of people to have access to easy-to-obtain and reasonably priced goods.

If you want to stop the pirates, since you can't beat them when it comes to cost you have to provide a better service than piratebay. They'll still be some piracy, but less. People will always want something for nothing.

[freeformschooler]

Imagine you actually sat down and really thought out a novel. It was decent and not some hack product from chopping up old books and gluing them together. Then imagine you spent a year writing that novel. You churned out 1000 pages and left room of possible sequels as a series. You gave up a lot to create it and publish it. Then someone else takes it and publishes it without so much as acknowledging you at all. They get rich off your labors, not appreciating or acknowledging any of them. People love your work, but don't even know you did it. You die in obscurity, quite broke. Fair?

I don't see how that relates to piracy, because I'm pretty sure most piracy doesn't involve the pirates getting rich off of someone else's labors.

Also, I concur with what MorleyDev said.