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Author Topic: Best Military Setup?  (Read 9746 times)

Sutremaine

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2011, 08:58:55 pm »

An assortment of notes:

*The more efficient your setup, the higher you can set the minimum number of dwarves training. The less time your military spends walking around looking for a stockpile or a bed, the better. Waterskins remove two out of three trips to the drink stockpile and reduce drinking time to a single turn, which is a massive time-saver. I tend to stick with three dwarves and the default ten minimum, though for patrolling I set the minimum to 2 dwarves (and use more than one squad).

*Sparring happens more often as skill levels equalise and demonstrations become unecessary.

*I'm not sure about defence order (think it might be parry-shield-armour-dodge), but dodging trains much more quickly if it's the only option. If I don't foresee any danger from doing so, I have dwarves train weaponless. They build weapon skill very quickly when given the opportunity, and prefer weapon training to defensive training.

*Swimming trains agility, and also stops your dwarves from drowning if they go chasing aquatic opponents (and is one of the few skills you can encourage in children without trapping them in a small room full of angry cats for a decade). I've yet to find a perfect training pool design.

*Marksdwarves can carry shields, which are great defence against bolts. They'll need some learning time with an experienced dwarf though. In my latest fortress I got one of those immigrants highly skilled as both a civilian and a soldier, and after having her train up my existing soldiers she was returned to engraving duty. Once I get settled I'm going to use her for teaching the more useless migrants how not to be clumsy simpletons, using a simple shield / leather armour uniform to allow Shield User and Armour User gains from sparring. And if my proper military all end up getting killed, I won't have to start from scratch. Marksdwarf is also a valid skill for demonstrations, but it's not particularly quick to be demonstrated. I don't know about Archer, since the dwarf who taught Marksdwarf skill immigrated without any Archer skill.

*Caverns are usually explored early on and then walled up and ignored. If there's something in there I want dead, I deconstruct a wall that can only be built from the fortress side and either station the military by the gap or send them in. If you want to keep them open then put a barracks by the entrance, but for safety's sake it's better to have a small enclosure. The only dwarves who'll go wandering around in the caverns will be weavers, and they'll wander all over the place and get mauled unless you have the map edges constantly covered. You could give some combat-trained dwarves a crossbow and tell them to do the web-collecting, but anything big enough to knock over a dwarf will remain a threat.
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Nan

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2011, 09:38:00 pm »

Would it be detrimental to have, say, 2 spearmen, 3 hammermen, and 5 axemen in a squad, since they would train each other in skills that they aren't going to use?
They wont do that. I tested it, and they only attend demonstrations for equipment they actually have equipped. However beware of wafflers. If you set the weapon to "individual choice" in the uniform (and have multiple types of weapons available in the fort) then the recruits will waffle endlessly over what weapon to use and will never gain any real skill in any of them. Assign them a specific weapon or weapon type. This isn't so much a problem with dorfs who already have high proficiency in a weapon skill.

However it's always best to train in squads of two, because that maximizes sparring. A squad of 2 dwarves, will soon be more powerful than a squad of 10 dwarves, because 2 ultra-legendary dwarves beat 10 average joe dwarves. Give it a try by embarking with 2 profecient weapon users, and let them train with each other - and no-one else - for the whole game. They will become like gods.

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What are the different perks of each weapon type?
Axes - Cutting off limbs and heads.
Spears - Stabbing organs, also good for stabbing heads (when an enemy passes out from pain, the spear dwarf will immediately put out their lights with a spear through the head), good armor-piercing ability.
Swords - A decent compromise. While some don't like then, I've been nothing but happy with my sword dwarfs.
Hammers - A good choice if you only have copper or silver.
Maces - Better described as a meat tenderizer than an actual weapon. I had a mace dwarf bashing an ogre or something in the head, shattering the skull on every hit, but not actually killing the poor thing. Just pages and pages of the beast having it's skull shattered. Don't use these for real combat.
Picks - Effective at removing limbs and punching through armor. However the pick-warrior will always be called a wrestler since picks use the mining skill. This doesn't effect their combat-effectiveness though.

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What's a good way to crosstrain soldiers and how long does crosstraining take?
Don't, the sole exception being training miners to use as pick-wielders. Dwarves gain attributes MUCH quicker by sparring in small squads than they ever could be cross-training.

However there's nothing wrong with having full squads of marksdwarves, who are kept permanently inactive (and without a place to train at) and allowed to haul and perform other duties. When you need them, or want to train them by shooting at live targets (which is highly effective), just station them and they automatically activate. When you cancel the station command they return to their civilian lives. But the cross-training wont be worth much at all, so just let them haul or otherwise help out.


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What's the best way to hold back the evils of the caverns below? Have a barracks between the entrance to the cavern and your stairway?
If you're not going to seal off the caverns, then a barracks in the cavern or on the stairway is a good choice. However forgotten beasts will rape your militia if you don't have a plan for safely disposing of them - killing them isn't the problem, the problem is the syndromes will kill your dwarfs afterwards. One solution is to force FB's to meet your militia in a checkerboard pattern arena. The diagonals don't allow gasses to pass through, but do allow dwarves to attack diagonally. This will reduce the militia-rape from vapors and such.

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How can you employ magma and water as methods of defense for your fortress? Could someone explain to me and the other Dabbling Dwarf Fortressers[V. Rusty] the intricacies of the almighty pressure plate?
I don't recommend fully automated drowning traps. That's asking for trouble. You can have a drowning chamber which automatically seals, but activate the water/lava using a manual lever.

The most foolproof way to use pressure plates to automatically seal entrances is to use retracting bridges over ramps. So the entrance should be a ramp going down. A retracting bridge is built which seals the hole. That retracting bridge should then be linked up to a pressure plate which is set to be triggered by friendlies, and to minimum weight. Create a 1x1 pasture on that pressure plate and pasture a single animal to it - anything which isn't too small will work. The animal will hold down the pressure plate, which will hold the retracting bridge open. When invaders come, the animal will either get spooked and run, or it will charge. In either case the pressure plate is then released and the bridges return to their default state - sealing the entrance.
There's a few reason to prefer this configuration:
1) A retracting bridge over a ramp/empty space cannot be blocked from closing.
2) A retracting bridge cannot accidentely squash friendlies.
3) The pressure plate with an animal on top functions as a "dead man's switch", the default state is lock-down. Absolutely anything capable of killing the animal or making it move will trigger lock-down.

You can also easily install this system to seal corridors automatically.

++++>║<+++++
++++>║<+++++

Have a set of ramps which goes under or over a wall built across the corridor.
Build a retracting bridge over one of the set of ramps.
Construct the "dead man's switch" pressure plate setup on whichever side you find most useful.

Automatically sealing stairwells is even easier. A retracting bridge can be built over up/down stairs, and will prevent anything going downstairs while closed - but the upstairs will always work.

My preference is to use these dead-man switch setups to lock the enemy outside with my seasoned military - the barracks are *outside* the locked down areas. Although rookies may be allowed to train deep in the safety of the fortress.
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AllThingsLive

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 10:42:17 pm »

*The more efficient your setup, the higher you can set the minimum number of dwarves training. The less time your military spends walking around looking for a stockpile or a bed, the better. Waterskins remove two out of three trips to the drink stockpile and reduce drinking time to a single turn, which is a massive time-saver. I tend to stick with three dwarves and the default ten minimum, though for patrolling I set the minimum to 2 dwarves (and use more than one squad).
*Sparring happens more often as skill levels equalise and demonstrations become unecessary.
*Caverns are usually explored early on and then walled up and ignored.
I always thought that waterskins held water and that you need flasks for alcohol. Great bit of information!
Can sparring occur between dwarves of different skill levels? Or do they just have to be with in a skill level or 2?
By walled up, do you mean a section of it is blocked off for the explicit use dwarves, or do you mean that all the sides of the cavern are walled, so that nothing can *spawn*?
And thanks for that trap plan, Nan!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:19:30 pm by AllThingsLive »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2011, 10:43:45 pm »

All Dwarves can spar with each other, but if they're total fresh recruits with no skill whatsoever, they'll be terrible at it.

Sutremaine

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 10:59:31 pm »

By walled up, do you mean a section of it is blocked off for the explicit use dwarves, or do you mean that all the sides of the cavern are walled, so that nothing can *spawn*?
I construct what I would have dug out had the space not been there, and send out soldiers to reveal the whole of the caverns and prevent surprises later. Then the last bit of wall is put in place and the caverns become inaccessible.

Spider webs can be farmed by digging out some space in the areas the game considers cavern biome, and trees and shrubs can be farmed by digging out some subterranean soil. I rarely end up in places without trees or soil or trade, so I don't usually need the cavern resources.

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cvar

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2011, 05:39:28 am »

I've started embarking with a dwarf who is a novice axedwarf, novice shielddwarf, novice teacher, novice organizer.  I'll grab a likely dwarf from one of the first immigrant waves to join his squad.  They then spar nearly nonstop and very very quickly skill up.  Once they've got quite a good skill base going I split the squad and add a dwarf to each of the two new ones.  My current fortress is on it's 3rd or 4th year and I have three axelords and one axedwarf (almost there!).  I'm going to split the squads one more time for a total of 4 squads and add 1-3 dwarves to each one just as soon as I get my metal industry up and running so that I can outfit them.

I use axes because axes are dwarfy.  The other posters have covered the pros and cons of each and certainly know their way around them.  You don't need to crosstrain dwarves anymore unless you want legendary pick users.  Crossbows for me tend to generate most of the kills as the hallway the goblins run down turns into a hailstorm of bolts.  But for marksdwarves I go for the quantity approach and tend to have multiple 10 man squads.

When I breached the caverns I immediately sealed it off with a wall.  I have no idea how to deal with it, though I suppose having legendary axedwarves training near your stairwell is probably the best choice.  Try to make sure they're blocking the only path.

I keep my entryway twisty.  It's normally a 3 wide tunnel with ramps that go down into the earth.  A turn before the ramp leads to the upper layers of my fort that is blocked off with doors and guard dogs.  My barracks is also close by.  The ramp goes down until I hit stone where I build a nice looking room with a trade depot and a big finished goods stockpile behind some locked doors.  I then line up my central stairwell and build around that.  So my fort technically has two entrances, but the ramp requires bypassing the tasty dogs and hasn't yet happened.

I didn't have a mountain to dig into on my current fort so the entrance is a 3 wide ramp that hooks west one z level down and drops into the earth.  The fort itself is behind a set of double doors with dogs in the hallway to find thieves.  I set my pasture to be around the ramps up top to serve as early ambush detectors until I have time to create a controlled entryway there.  Currently working on sorting my stone, a pump stack for magma forges and paving over my cistern since I didn't expect to hit the caverns and now I have trees growing in the damn thing.  :-[
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 11:21:14 am »

Bah, the caverns are a lot safer than the surface.

Unless you find crundles. Or early FB's. Or if you mod antmen to breed millions of babies.

AllThingsLive

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 12:35:34 pm »

Alright, well my last fortress crumbled to an end. I got sort of bored of it after reading all these great tips so I lined up all my dwarves via burrow, and then had one remaining siege operator launch ballista arrows into the line. Once most were at least injured, I had a mass cremating! One of the dwarves got REALLY burnt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm going to see how the squads of 2 works out for me on this run.
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AllThingsLive

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 12:40:02 am »

Praise Armok, I've done it! I defeated a siege with nothing but dwarves! No drawbridge smashing, no drowning traps, no cages, just dwarves! It's the 3rd year or so and I have 2 axe lords, 2 hammer lords, and 3 spear almostlords! That sparring tip is brilliant, squads of two are the way to go!
As far as wounds go, one of the hammer lords got a small cut to his forearm and an axe lord got a bruised leg.
Thanks again for all the tips guys, this is really incredible to me!
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rephikul

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 03:47:50 am »

Assuming cost is not an issue:

Vanilla / FD:
5 miners, as many crossbowmen as you can get, as many war animals as you can get.

IM:
As many bowmen as you can get.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2011, 08:39:30 am »

Praise Armok, I've done it! I defeated a siege with nothing but dwarves! No drawbridge smashing, no drowning traps, no cages, just dwarves! It's the 3rd year or so and I have 2 axe lords, 2 hammer lords, and 3 spear almostlords! That sparring tip is brilliant, squads of two are the way to go!
As far as wounds go, one of the hammer lords got a small cut to his forearm and an axe lord got a bruised leg.
Thanks again for all the tips guys, this is really incredible to me!

Congratz on your goblin smashing endeavours :D

AllThingsLive

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 12:20:05 am »

Well this seems to has brought up a new issue. My fortress has suddenly become very boring. My military takes on whole sieges without a single injury and demolishes forgotten beasts. So now what? Without any real threat besides the demons (which I really don't ever even encounter) playing Dwarf Fortress has become real boring real fast.
So, how can I spice things up a little, besides releasing demons?
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Nan

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2011, 01:47:37 am »

Fortress Defense mod is a good choice if you're bored with gobbos and elves, and don't want to change other aspects of the game. It gives you more enemies to fight, earlier ones, and tougher ones, and that's about all it does.
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maksymka

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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 07:25:36 am »

Dig for candies! Unleash the Clowns!
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Re: Best Military Setup?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 07:38:20 am »

Dig for candies! Unleash the Clowns!

And have the military carry back one nervous system rotting syndrome which makes misma belch from the vegitative dorfs orifices!

Gods i hate clowns
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