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[Angle]

They are not ridiculous cartoon monsters! And they don't need scythe arms, just big sharp claws and strong muscles. And biology is much more efficient than mechanics, the reason you don't run into stuff like zerg monsters is because it's not worth it from an evolutionary standing point, not because it's not possible. Although now that I think about it, we might need some kind of super food in order to keep these things alive. Let's make buying that xeno cloning software a priority, eh? That way we can engineer some kind of super alien cabbage or something.

[Armok]

In that case I weren't talking about "them", unless you're claiming there are no cartoon monsters referenced anywhere in the discussion. It's called hyperbole.

Yes, biology is much more efficient than mechanics, at least as portrayed in this game. Wheels hooked up to an electric engine are also much more efficient than rocket engines, that doesn't mean any amount of them are going to get you into orbit. There's a difference between being efficient and being effective.

Also, it's actualy not as much that it isn't worth it as that there are more efficient ways to do the same thing.

But you DO have a point.

I'm kinda facepalming I didn't get this erlier, instead prematurely declaring things imposible. rather than trying to second guess evolution with convulted ideas I should have just looked at what things that eat armoured things do: Use frigging strong jaws to crush it, like a nutcracker. Lift it up and drop it from a great height. Mill through it with some rasping implement over a long period of time like starfish. Ok, new idea for a combat model:

FREAKJAW:
* Base: Minnion
* Freakishly large mouth, with teeth fused protruding as a sharp, monstrous beak.
* Extremely massive jaw muscles for slowly crushing through armor.
* stronger neck musculature to support the jaw
* tungue elongated like a tentacle, and with a venomous sting at the tip.
* Reversing some of the minnion adaptations and making generic combat enchantments instead, mainly increased strength and metabolism.
* Thick tangley "fur" of silk, like filt. should provide some manner of protection.
* claws on hands. Not huge big volverine claws, just the standard syle claws that most animals have. possibly retractable like a cats.
* porcupine style spines

[Angle]

I hadn't been thinking of taking on armored targets, just the local animals that keep attacking us. What I wanted was something akin to a humanoid bear - big, tough, sharp claws, able to take on most any other animal and have a fighting chance. And be cheap and expendable, so we can just throw them at trouble in numbers.

That said, what you've got seems decent, although I'd focus less on the mouth and more on the other musculature - I was thinking of having it claw things to death, not bite them. Although if it is gonna bite them, a snout might be better than a beak. very few creatures go the biting path with beaks.

[Monkeyfacedprickleback]

I did suggest a modified GoRo type a while back which had spikes for lower arms, and possibly armoured hide. It'd probably be easier to go for small modification over time rather then mass attribute changes. I'm thinking trial and error or sweet and simple.

[Tiruin]

Could someone compile the list of feasible clones to be experimented with?

I've forgotten what GoRo stands for again.

[Angle]

Yeah, we need to keep that information to hand. Maybe have it in the cloning module under "Genomes"?

Here are the genomes so far:

Spoiler: Minnion (click to show/hide)

>* MINNIONS: this one is probably best described as a list of features and their consequences:
* Dwarfism: smaller size, meaning needing less nutrients and such, and quicker growing to it's full size
* Force grown: grown as fast as possible, at the cost of durability, intelligence, and increasing the risk of defects. going to grow fast enough as it is.
* Cut corners: reducing the cost of growing and the amount of food needed by reducing organs and muscle mass, and any parts of the brain not stimulated by an education.
* Slow metabolism/cold blooded: reduce food needed, at the cost of reaction speed and the ability to withstand cold. They will already not need much food because they are small and they won't be able to sleep in the rain if they can't withstand the cold.
* Natural blood opioids: increased ability to withstand pain, fear, discomfort, and general mistreatment. Stuff like sleeping in the rain, eating the same crappy food all the time, or being treated as expendable cannon fodder. Reduces intelligence and ability to detect and avoid harm.
* Twinned: grow like Siamese twins joined slightly at the head, two in a single tank counting as one clone. The input stream from education is duplicated so bot the clones receive the same one. immediately before decanting they'll split and from then on act just like separate clones.
Summary: Extremely cheap, small, crappy clones that can be produced two at a time.

Spoiler: Go-Ro (click to show/hide)

A clone with 4 arms and a more efficient digestive tract as well as better motor control so they will be able to effectively use those extra arms.

Wait a moment, clones that can be grown two at a time? We're already the goddamn zerg!

[Tiruin]

Well, I'm happy that we're coming up with original clones! Not against copyright of Starcraft Zerg

We need a clone that would function at day and only at day, with the bonuses one expects of such limitations.

In short, full-hard worker clone with determination as the rays of the sun.

[Evil Lincoln]

No update tonight but i'll probabley do one tommorow unless i am feeling really lazy. I have answered a few questions and talked a bit about the lasers and cloning animals though:

Well, no. Lasers are actually kind of wimpy. Behold:

Colonytech Arms Brochure:
Name:   Cost:   Damage:   Description:
Basic Laser   250   2
Basic Machete   250   2

Basic machetes do as much damage as basic lasers. The normal Laser we have deals 4, but it's more expensive than the clone to wield it. We should, with a it of effort, be able to put together a melee clone that could hit for 4 - 8 damage and be easily replaceable. As an additional bonus, we could sell the genome and probably get at least a few hundred yollars.

In my thinking the basic lasers are about the equivilent to a modern firearm. With the bonus of not having to carry the weight of ammunition (although you still have to carry batteries) and you have potentialy infinite ammunition if you have a source of power. Keep in mind the machetes are made of sharp future metal so they are more then just a lump of sharp metal. They in effect do have infinite ammo however (since i don't want to bother recording how dull each blade is) but the trade-off is that you have to be standing next to the enemy to use them.

So the lasers aren't wimpy, rather the machetes are just really sharp.

And growing a clone just requires throwing some vegetation into a vat while making a laser requires getting the metal and crystal required to produce (lasers need the appropriate coloured crystal to make them, red -> basic, orange -> normal) them so the clones are understandabley cheap.

Also, how does the education module work? would it be able to teach something like that combat skills? Can we make custom education courses, like for scouts, miners, foragers, Melee/Ranged Specialists, etc?

Something like this crossed my mind a while ago when I relised there wasn't a doctor class. I think you should be able to 'research' new ones like you have been researching new genomes. Of course things like a miner class are a bit weird since the worker clones already know how to operate mining equipment. Maybe they could have a default knowledge of certain minerals but giving something like that to the lowest in the chain of command is a bit of a waste.

Evil Lincoln: We don't seem to have the mineral scanner in our inventory, did you forget about that?

I forgot to put it in there.

I also can't remember if you bought the xeno cloning upgrade. I think you did but since a few people said you diddn't i'm not sure. If you do have it i should really get around to putting the animales you've scanned into the cloning menu so you know how much they cost and how long it will take to grow them. Animals that you clone will probabley will be tame enough not to attack you but you'll have to train them (either the normal way or with the education module) to be good pack or hunting animals. Otherwise they'll just try to act like they would in the wild.

[Angle]

I don't think we have the xeno cloning module. I haven't crawled the thread for it though.

What about the money from our clone patent? We should ask that corp about that.

[Armok]

In other words: No clone grown blade is going to be as good as that machete, which is the same as WORST of the lasers.

A miner class might know how to operate more advanced mining tech that'd normally require a science education, and how to design mines and such? But yea, not worth it unless combined with foreman.

I'm pretty sure we DO have xeno cloning At least here ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97703.msg2906000#msg2906000 ) you included tame lobster wolf in the cloning tab.

[Angle]

OK yeah we did, on turn 50 on page 28.

[Flying Dice]

And as for that fast, agile, and cheap type of combat clone you suggested, Armok?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kekeke

Also, feel free to replace the natural claws with hands, though to be fair, if we could get a genetic database and replicate the relative strength and psi of some species of insect jaw on a larger scale, that would probably make a very effective nutcracker against armored infantry and vehicle hulls with sharp angles/protrusions.

[Angle]

I wasn't expecting these too take on armored infantry or vehicles, just the local jerks that keep attacking us. Against other humans, we'll need something more serious.

[Evil Marahadja]

Well, even though armored animals are cool, in my opiniom they are not very cost/effective. For starters, it will take a while to reaserch, and because of its complexy compared to the other things we have experimented, it will propaly take some time. Instead, it whould be a lot better to, both i the short and long run:

>Grow workers who can make stuff and give us all the munney. Buy lasers and arm all our troops. And build defences as well.

> Start resarching on a DNA string which when analysed makes the whole DNA code of a clone destroy itself. That way we can compat online piracy! (Almost, atleast). If succeded, we can start selling our clones without stupid big company who takes most of the cut.

[Angle]

I had suggested a way too keep our clones secret, but it wouldn't help much. We don't have the facilities to make a lot.