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[AzuredreamsXT]

Does anyone else feel this way? I realized this my second last game, and thought well i'll only use crossbow traps next time, and only 3 to a square and just for a few rows. This still is enough to deal enough damage to a large siege for to cause it to route. I'm gonna have to not use them period to continue to get a challenge from goblins and non trap immune beasts. The crossbows and bolts are all made of bone too.

I sort of feel like the more i learn about the game, the more it's not actually difficult, it's just knowing how to do things, the initial learning curve that gives the game it's difficult reputation.

Thoughts? Opinions? Insults?

[Telgin]

Seems to be the general consensus here.  Especially cage traps.

Until the AI is improved (gonna be a while), you might just want to challenge yourself by not using them.

I circled my last fort in a ring of weapon traps with glass discs in them.  Didn't route sieges but did soften them up for my military to finish them off.

[Jenniretta]

Weapon and cage traps are very powerful, a weapon trap row or two with even halfway decent weapons can slaughter almost anything that wanders by. Stonefall traps aren't quite as bad, but even they can occasionally stop a siege in sifficient numbers. For a challenge, try to not use them at all, or use them with one weak weapon per tile (so instead of 3 crossbows per tile, use one wooden weapon)) or only use stone traps, etc. and try not to use multiple rows of traps.

More fun, is to build more elaborate traps, like drowning chambers and such, and use those instead of the usual ones.

[Ieb]

Traps can be OP if you know how to utilize 'em and abuse the pathfinding. Like, enemies tend to A) follow their leader, even if they die, which cause them to gather up around the body(if there's no dwarf or tame animal to draw aggro) and B) they can go down a straight line if there's only a 1-tile wall between corridors(like, enemies following the leader or trying to gather in a mob path around the wall for whatever reason).

Weapon traps can be quite useful in abusing the single-line motion, you don't even have to kill the entire force to have a squad retreat, but there's the problem that weapon traps can get stuck. Leading your dorfs to go and fix the traps. Possibly drawing aggro. Especially when there's a dozen bowgoblins there and your legendary metalcrafter(who JUST finished making a tin artifact) walks up there, gets scared and runs right at the goblins in an order to escape.

Crossbow traps? They require ammo to work, but if you have enough goblinite you can probably supply them with all the metal bolts you'd want. Also, they never get bodies stuck in 'em so they'll keep on firing even in the toughest of sieges, as long as there's ammo that is.

These days when I make traps, it's the unconventional ones. Like right now I got a siegekiller trap. A loooong twisty corridor that I open when there's a bunch of siegers about. They'll path in, a lever is pulled, the whole place is sealed.

Then I pull the lever that opens the watergates. About 2 seconds later, the entire tunnel is flooded. Bye bye siege.

Hilarity occurred earlier though, when a wild animal managed to get in the system somehow and broke the 2 doors that I put up to allow easy cleanup access to the system. The system was still draining. Which it then started to do into the fort. Oh, there were so many people who fell and broke several bones that it wasn't even funny.

[lcy03406]

not only powerful but too simple. a mechanism can play as a combination of a pressure plate, weapons and energy input, and all in one tile.

[AzuredreamsXT]

Yea gonna have to go with no traps whatsoever in future games, until Toady works in improved enemy a.i besides charge blindly forward :p

I'm pumped for the challenge of my next game, no traps, just my military and ingenuity for defense. I'll probably get stomped like i did my first few games, the way DF should be!

[Iton Ibrukrithzam]

You could always look into some of the better mods out there.  Fortress Defense, iirc, includes several races of siegers with trap_avoid.

[Iton Ibrukrithzam]

I sort of feel like the more i learn about the game, the more it's not actually difficult, it's just knowing how to do things, the initial learning curve that gives the game it's difficult reputation.

Thoughts? Opinions? Insults?

That's basically true.  Even without weapon traps or cage traps, though, there are lots and lots of ways to decimate an enemy force without giving them a chance.  I don't even really think improved enemy AI would help; if there's only one way into your fort, and that way is through the magma room, or through the bear pen, or through the winding maze while marksdwarves fire on you, or all three, there's not really anything improved AI could do, other than maybe decide to go home before taking casualties.  That's the thing about a game where you can have so much impact on the environment, the only reason ever to face to an enemy on even ground is because you want to. 

[Telgin]

While that is substantially true, one of the dev log notes mentions potentially allowing siegers to dig into your fort.  Or use ladders to scale walls, for example.  They could potentially find new ways inside that you didn't anticipate.

Of course, you could then just use an underground magma moat to show the goblins what you think about tunneling into the fortress.

That's the beauty of DF.  No matter what happens, there's a dorfy answer to it.

[Wayward Device]

While that is substantially true, one of the dev log notes mentions potentially allowing siegers to dig into your fort.  Or use ladders to scale walls, for example.  They could potentially find new ways inside that you didn't anticipate.

Of course, you could then just use an underground magma moat to show the goblins what you think about tunneling into the fortress.

That's the beauty of DF.  No matter what happens, there's a dorfy answer to it.

And also the possibility of seigers making siege weapons like catapults and the like to knock holes in your walls. Is it bad that I already have plans ready for self healing magma filled walls?

[zilpin]

And also the possibility of seigers making siege weapons like catapults and the like to knock holes in your walls. Is it bad that I already have plans ready for self healing magma filled walls?

It's coming, and magma is never bad.
One day, siegers will be able to knock down walls and dig tunnels.  And making defenses against that will be ☼FUN☼.

This is the nature of us science/engineering minded DF players.
We complain a game is too easy, then seek ways to make our fortress invincible.

[King DZA]

I've never used an excessive amount of traps before(not because I don't want an overpowered fortress, I just don't think a hallway of traps looks very pretty), so I cant say.

In terms of better enemy tactics, that's all well and good. But if enemies are gonna be able to tunnel through ground to breach my fort, I damn well better get an easy way to refill them.

[Buttery_Mess]

Least cheaty way of using weapon traps is to use them to force invaders to dodge off a narrow precipice into a pit, preferably one filled with magma. Of course you'll need to install a means to periodically drain the magma in order to harvest the goblinite. It's just as lethal but it doesn't feel as cheaty to exploit goblin stupidity as it does to exploit game mechanics.

[Kofthefens]

The first and last time I used weapon traps, I use ~ 500 X10 serrated iron discs... Then I started using a military.

[Necro910]

And also the possibility of seigers making siege weapons like catapults and the like to knock holes in your walls. Is it bad that I already have plans ready for self healing magma filled walls?

It's coming, and magma is never bad.
One day, siegers will be able to knock down walls and dig tunnels.  And making defenses against that will be ☼FUN☼.

This is the nature of us science/engineering minded DF players.
We complain a game is too easy, then seek ways to make our fortress invincible.

@Diggers: Redirect river/magma so it fills a void between the enemy and you. Have both in separate chambers, and you have a regenerative wall.

@Dorfineering Players: My best friend always complains about that. He yells at me for not playing the game the devs intended me to

See: Combat Medic in TF2 with little to no healing abilities, that is nigh invincible