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[thobal]

It's the only good ticket I can see. Two people who dont want to really be president. One who knows what to do and a vice president no one would take seriously. PEROT-COLBERT.

Who is with me?


DRAFT ROSS PEROT

[woose1]

One of the first images I found of Ross Perot:



Obviously something is very wrong here. Regardless, I support this candidate.

[Capntastic]

Prove your assertion of Ross Perot 'knowing what to do'.

[mainiac]

Because it worked so freaking well in 2000.

Don't give us any crap about the two parties shutting out other candidates.  Both parties have open primaries.  If your candidate can't appeal to enough voters to win a primary, all you are doing is vote splitting.

Is it ideal?  No.  But before bitching about the two party system, actually use the avenues it offers.  Unless you involve yourself in the primary process it's your own damn fault.

[Vector]

And what if I don't like either party?

[Frumple]

And what if I don't like either party?[...]

... or have access to the millions in funding to actually make anything even remotely resembling a meaningful impact?

(Actually, from what I understand, the answer is either "move*" or "suck it (up)"

*Assuming you can afford to, and the government lets you.

E: Some formatting stuff to make the sleepy brain stop bothering me. Also, totally have to derail joke thread with srsbiznz about US political train-wrecksystem.

[mainiac]

And what if I don't like either party?

Did you see my post about primaries?

... or have access to the millions in funding to actually make anything even remotely resembling a meaningful impact?

And 3rd parties fix this problem how?  Getting a 3rd party to actually succeed requires money and manpower that dwarfs the challenge of winning primaries, even presidential primaries.

[Frumple]

What did 3rd parties have to do with anything? I was talking the ability for me, personally, to actually have any influence worth-a-damn on the primaries. I'm poor, have long hair, and find xenophobia distasteful. (Note: Of those three, one actually matters. It's the first one.) There's no way in hell I'd be able to actually make a difference. wheeee

Protip: Candidate appeal has a minimum price tag, which would feed myself, my family, and probably half the town I live in for the rest of our natural lives.

[mainiac]

Well in your case good sir, IMHO your best bet is that we somehow change to a proportional representation system.  I'm all for that myself.  But I thought you were talking about 3rd parties so that's why I framed my response that way.

[sluissa]

Okay, how about this? Not even counting the people registered independent, primaries shut out a good portion of the voters. Say there actually was a republican candidate I liked, but I'm a registered democrat? I can't vote in their primary. I can't give them support. Say I'm anyone that dislikes Obama but can't get behind any of the Republican candidates? Generally an incumbent faces little or no competition from within their own party. Who to vote for? How to change the choices?

Independents have practically no say in primaries what so ever. (Yes, we occasionally get to vote on judges and maybe a few local positions. But really nothing national.)

EDIT: I remembered that not all states may be the same in these cases, but these are true for Florida at least.

[mainiac]

You can literally change your registration tomorrow, at no cost to yourself with a single sheet of paper that you can print of your state board of elections websites.  And many states allow non-party members to vote in the primaries so your state might very well be one of them.

Edit: judging by your last post, you are a Florida resident who is already registered independent.  Fill out this one page form and you can change your party: http://election.dos.state.fl.us/pdf/webappform.pdf

Easiest thing in the world?  No.  Easier then starting a 3rd party and spending a decade or more helping it claw to the top of the political dogpile?  Yeah.

[sluissa]

Why should I have to identify as a member of a party I don't agree with fundimentally? Why should a candidate have to do so as well to have a chance?

This definitely has shades of "wear the party pin, people will treat you right." Vague shades, but shades nonetheless.

Besides, I'd need to have that done before the beginning of the year to vote in the presidential primaries in my state, which take places at the end of January.

That leaves a good 4 or 5 months of actual primary campaigning to go through potentially before a candidate is chosen. A lot can happen in 4 or 5 months, politically. A lot can even happen in a single month. We've seen the string of Republicans that have risen to fame over the last few months and just a week or two later fallen from grace for one reason or another.

[mainiac]

Why should you have to sign up to vote for the thing you want to vote on?  Well because if we didn't register to vote it would be a logistical nightmare and we would open ourselves up to the possibility of voter fraud.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's not like a pact sealed in blood or anything.

[sluissa]

I'm not arguing against voter registration here. I'm arguing against having to identify as something I'm not in order to have more than two choices on my ballot.

[Enzo]

Edit: judging by your last post, you are a Florida resident who is already registered independent.  Fill out this one page form and you can change your party: http://election.dos.state.fl.us/pdf/webappform.pdf

Easiest thing in the world?  No.  Easier then starting a 3rd party and spending a decade or more helping it claw to the top of the political dogpile?  Yeah.

Yes! Better to half-ass it and take the easier option than to try and exact actual change. I mean seriously, think practically guys!

I'm not even American, I just have to say "Bravo" to mainiac for completely hijacking this topic. Yeah, it wasn't much of a topic to begin with, but still. A strictly two-party system, which is what the US has become, is total balls. Really, are any of the Republican candidates right now at all qualified? Obama is coasting on being the lesser of two evils. It's not the worst system, but "deal with it" isn't a good outlook for political process.