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[Sheb]

((What was pmed by whom? What you did seems to be what was under Azthor's old orders, that weren't updated in a while. Azthor, if you PM'ed new orders without notifying anyone, it's not really nice or fair-play. Anyway, I'll let you deal with that IG, it the Archon want someone's head for disrepecting the Edict, Roim will be more than happy to give him yours. :p

Ghazkull, I feel the support-giving and orders system need an overhaul. A lot of things Azthor or me got support for is pretty straigthforward stuff (invest in infrastructure) that was done with Novan money and did not involve any character actions. Moreover, the first person to give the order can farm the support, which mean it'll just end up with me and Azthor rushing to give orders as soon as the turn are rolled. (Or rather, as I have authority, I'll veto all of Azthor's orders and give them again. Both way, it wouldn't be fun).

What I'd suggest is having two separate support table. One "institutional support table", which would indicate whether the people support House Nova, the Church or local nobles. That one would be influenced by stuff like infrastructure build-up or anything. And one "Personnal Support Table" that show who amongst the House leadership got support. That would only be influenced by personal actions (Getting declared an heretic by the church, win a great battle). The Personnal Support table would also be influenced by the actions of institutions, but only if one noble has a clear role in ruling them.))

[Dwarmin]

Avery's maintained military stance as she faced down Jurislav. Well, as best she could being 6 months pregnant...she felt very vulnerable, right now. The rasping of the gas mask earlier has filled her with terror-a unique terror. Fear for her child, in this land of merciless claws and poison gas. He was very fragile. She hadn't thought of a name yet.

She looked around the room, stripped of all excesses. They couldn't afford them, here...

"Lightbringer." She said evenly.

"Have you something to say, out with it. I have traveled long to die in this miserable place, and I'd not want to spoil those who went to such lengths to arrange it."

Her scarred hand clenched and un-clenched.

[Ardas]

((Blast, I forgot to ask: was Averys granted that money I wanted to give or was she shipped straight to Vengeance with nothing but clotes on her back?))

[Sheb]

((Also, what is the cost of those mercenaries?

Another fun thing to consider would be granting each noble fiefs and vassals. We would each control a part of the overall Novan Kingdom. Part of the administration (says, the scientists) could be granted as fief to some noble. While everyone would swear fealty to the Matriarch, it could give more opportunity for patronage-making, rather than just encouraging to spam orders that will deplete the common treasury.))

[Ghazkull]

((OOC: Sorry for the inconvenience then Azthor sent me a Pm containing the Orders of most of the players...don't know which he took XP
Anyway: your idea of the Support-System is definetly nice, however the Fief thing seems to me like its going to turn into massive amounts of work...how do you want to have it implemented?))

The man stood up, he turned out to be actually quite small he stood a head shorter then Aevery's and had to look up at her. A Grandfather-like grin shone on hsi face.

"The Famous Lady Aevery's. You really ordered the Death of a Inquisitorial Agent? And drew a weapon on a Inquisitorial Ship? Heh, i wanted to see the face of Joras. Anyway i wanted to personally welcome you on Vengeance, the Shithole of the Galaxy. You can sit down if you wish or if you want to make that child come early continue standing, although i doubt that that is currently very comfortable. Anyway as you see Inquisitor Joras sent you here to "die". Under normal circumstances this would be true, but in fact you are lucky in two.or was it three ways?
No idea. Anyway. Old Malcador told me to take care of you and that's what i gonna do, besides seeing the faces of the Inquisitor when you come back alive with a healthy child would be priceless. I certainly make sure that your not gonna die here, at least as far as it stands in my power, but as i was declared a Living Saint by that crazy old hunk Corybdus back in the days, it seems that means pretty much. Yeah Corybdus that old fart, always wondered what he found on me...where was i? Ah yes! Malcador told me to take care of you.of course as with all things in life this comes not without price. I will make sure that the next three months are as comfortable for you as possible and although it doesnt look like it we have some very good Medicinal Facilities here so no fear of that birth. By the Pancreator the last birht i have witnessed was...ah yes the Grandson of the Emperor was it...what was his name again...hmmm. It doesn't matter. I shouldn't trail off so often. So you stay safe get your child and now we come to the catch. What can you and extension House Nova offer me in exchange? Of course i already know the answer but i want to hear what you are willing to offer to me."

The man certainly had a way of not stopping to talk....

[Sheb]

((When did he send you those orders? I find it strange that he would agree to let Ardas rules the school to then send orders ordering their taking over.

Well, everyone would "own" part of the administration. For exemple: Azthor would rule the police, economic development and cultural policy. I'd rule the army, treasury and foreign office. Trent the Scientists. Fief could be handed by whoever rule House Nova at that time (or the regent). Each player would give orders to his fiefs only. Each fiefs would have support indicated in the same way you have it now for the army, police and so on. (So the King could decide to remove control of the army from someone and allocate it to someone else, but the army would stay faithful to the ex-general). Fief can be traded, awarded by the King, or even conquered (We could have the Power Armour Soldiers invading the scientists' labs and taking them over). You can also try to get the loyalty of a particular branch of government and then attempt a "coup". (For example, whoever rule the Ordos Medicae can offer free medical treatment to soldiers and their family in a bid to gain the army's loyalty and try to get the officers to swear loyalty to him)

Players would gain support from actions taken by their fiefs. That way, we have a totally dysfunctional government system with plenty opportunity for infighting. :p ))

[Ardas]

((Sheb, its sounds interesting and all, but keep in mind that current game is a behemoth to update. We could use ideas that would help in reducing the amount of fiddling and such. Also, Ghaz, how long are you gonna be gone for ? You have exams and stuff, right?))

[Ghazkull]

Sounds fine to me, well if you want it that way you can have it that way...

@Ardas: last examw ill be 24 July....maybe i will post once in a while and lurk the forums a bit but till the exams are finishde no new update...

[Sheb]

((Well, I don't think my idea would add more burden on the GM, but they won't lessen that load either. Feel free to correct me Ghazkull, I don't know what your updating routine is.

Now, things we could (and should) do to lessen the GM loads:

• Have someone centralize all orders, in the way I did it.
• Establish clear order template for everybody to follow.
• Do the accounting of how much credit are spent on so and so ourselves. (I'd suggest having a "debt" mechanics, where if we spend more money than we earn, we go in debt. Too much debt would cause problems. That way, we could make budget without loosing the uncertainty over income.
• Drop unneeded game mechanics: We're not a medieval society anymore: does tracking food store bring anything? Do we need so many detail in the income source? We can just remember that Entertainement income if 59±something per turn, and forgot about the details. Actually every source of income could be saved in a spreadsheet as "Number±Number" Just change the value of the numbers.
• Same with infrastructure. We do not need so many details. You could abstract a lot of it under a few headings (Education, Health, Transports...), with a couple characteristics (Level and population served, with the cost being "Level time Population Served time a constant, with the constant changing depending on geography).
• Feel free to not roll sometime. Not everything need to be managed by rules, sometime GM fiat is much less work. Sure, it means you'll need GM skill and a lot of fairness.
• I don't know if you have one, but a spreadsheet to manage to budget can be a great help. If you don't, I can try to make one. You can just post a screenshot of the spreadsheet afterward, rather than having to write tons of number by hand.

Any other idea to help Ghazkull?

P.S. Maybe we could get another GM until we finish your other exams? I dunno who could do it (Cybergenesis maybe?), but it could help.))

[Azthor]

((When did he send you those orders? I find it strange that he would agree to let Ardas rules the school to then send orders ordering their taking over.

Well, everyone would "own" part of the administration. For exemple: Azthor would rule the police, economic development and cultural policy. I'd rule the army, treasury and foreign office. Trent the Scientists. Fief could be handed by whoever rule House Nova at that time (or the regent). Each player would give orders to his fiefs only. Each fiefs would have support indicated in the same way you have it now for the army, police and so on. (So the King could decide to remove control of the army from someone and allocate it to someone else, but the army would stay faithful to the ex-general). Fief can be traded, awarded by the King, or even conquered (We could have the Power Armour Soldiers invading the scientists' labs and taking them over). You can also try to get the loyalty of a particular branch of government and then attempt a "coup". (For example, whoever rule the Ordos Medicae can offer free medical treatment to soldiers and their family in a bid to gain the army's loyalty and try to get the officers to swear loyalty to him)

Players would gain support from actions taken by their fiefs. That way, we have a totally dysfunctional government system with plenty opportunity for infighting. :p ))

((Just a second, I am going over the update. However, in yor own post, you ignored a good deal of the orders I had issued, which prompted me to send him a compilation with yours, Luthias' and mine. While, like Luthias, I have a secret move or two, the bulk of my orders was that which had already been listed. Also, much as you wouldn't do it as a player for fairness sake, there is plenty of reason for Roim not to veto all orders and forward them himself;  namely, sparking a civil war which would invite every vulture in the system to feast on Nova's remains. Also, while I approve of CG's GMing, remember that he, of all people, is among these most unlikely to have the necessary time))

[Ardas]

((@Sheb: CG won't do, he is on an extended leave due to RL. He is my GM in You are King and I'm a temp GM in his absence there. We can't really ask any one of current players to GM because that won't do, and I don't know anyone who has loads of free time and right ideas to commit to this.))

[Sheb]

((Well, the first version of my post ignored most of your orders because I was like "Hey, a lot happened, let's re-write orders rather than go along with the old one." And I was also too lazy to go back and copy them.  The updated version contained all of your orders I think, except for the one regarding school, since I though it was obsolete (after all, you agreed with Luthias not to take them over). Anyway, not that important. (Except: Is it me, or did you reclassify some orders as being given by you only to hog the support gain? Stuff like training the volunteer army?)

As for vetoing your orders, well, I'm the King, you're not. There is no real reason you should be able to run around and give order for the whole of House Nova, since you have (AFAIK) no official position. I could just order the treasury not to fund your orders, and issue mine instead (even if they are the same). Either that, or I could just write up an order list right now, to hog all the support. But basically, I won't, because it wouldn't be fun, which is why I came up with that separate system.)
))

[Ardas]

((Sheb, instead of creating player problem out of it, consider this situation IC. Roim is a consort to a queen that is gone, while there are blood relatives of hesr that definitely know the house better than you. Was Roim an equal ruler or just a husband to a ruler shold have been decided clearly before, but since that was not established, you are looking at internal power struggle. Hence the conflict oin orders. And since azhtor is of Nova blood directly, one would think that people like Malcador and household servants woudl be more like ley to do stuff for him behind the scenes out of Roim's reach.
That's just my 2 cents. also, You aren't technically king, there is not such title for House Nova. There is a Matriarch, but she is gone. Roim is a consort of the Matriarch, but was there any specified title for him inside Nova?))

[Sheb]

((Actually, I always assumed a guy like Roim wouldn't hand over his Kingdom without keeping some sort of power. Anyway, where there is a player problem is that the current mechanic means whoever give orders first get the support boost from them. That's not fun, and neither is it realistic. I'm all for power struggle, but it's not fun if the winner is the one that is online more often.))

[Azthor]

((Sheb, I didn't take credit for any of your actions, Ghazkull can confirm that. Alas, Roim does seem to overly underestimate his fellow noble's influence; also, there are IG reasons other than initiative for Azthor receiving the support for the economical improvements, but I wouldn't want to spoil the mystery . Although he inherited Aeverys' support, Roim is not, by any means, the Patriarch))