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[Flok Speargrabber]

So! I always make a well near my residential section, to give my sick dwarfs easy access to water. I built a shaft down to near them and proceeded to let water down.

Once it'd filled up the bottom level, it began overflowing into the level above.

Basically what I'd dug was a J-shaped tube. While I understand that pressure on the long part WOULD make some water come out, surely not enough to flood two entire floors.

[Seryntas]

Diagram?

[Flok Speargrabber]

Not very good at them.

code:

XXXXX  X = FLOOR
.XXXX Bottom floor, where the water pours in from the . .
<XOOO O = ROOM ABOVE
XXOOO . = WATER LANDING AREA
XXOOO 

code:

XXX
X_X _ = Channel
XXX 

[Frobozz]

I think he's doing something similar to the following. Water enters from the longer opening and is coming down and flooding the level.

code:

OOOO O
OOOO O
   O O
OO O O
OO   O
OOOOOO

[Flok Speargrabber]

Yeah, that's the side view.

I'm FAIRLY certain that that shouldn't happen.

[Klokjammer]

What is the source of water? And is it constant?  If that shaft is connected to a river w/o a floodgate you ARE going to have a flood.  If the volume of a murky pool is > the volume of the reservoir, then it will overflow.  Murky pools refill after the snow melts.

code:

 
This is how I'm interpreting your situation.
KEY:  ~ still watter
      ^ falling watter
OOOO^O
OOOO^O
   O^O
OO O^O
OO  ^O
OO~~~O
OOOOOO
OOOO^O
OOOO^O
   O^O
OO O^O
OO~~~O
OO~~~O
OOOOOO
OOOO^O
OOOO^O
   O^O
OO~O~O
OO~~~O
OO~~~O
OOOOOO
OOOO^O
OOOO^O
~~~O~O
OO~O~O
OO~~~O
OO~~~O
OOOOOO
 

This theoretically is supposed to happen

Unless of course I'm missing something, as the original post was not descriptive enough.

[Flok Speargrabber]

Hmm, but wouldn't it stop before it overflowed? Or does water in the game respond to pressure?

[Klokjammer]

I don't see how it would stop on its own.  This is exactly how water works in real life.  Using that diagram, think of how a toilet flushes, it follows the same principle.

Again I ask you, what exactly is the source of water?  What is the approximate volume of your intended reservoir? (give your answer in terms of total squares or by its dimensions ex. LxWxH)

Solutions to fix the problem:

- build an overflow drainage system, using grates and another shaft nearby, keep in mind as to where it would drain.

- find a way to control the flow of water, using floodgates, and hatches with levers.

- quickly build a system of pumps to get the excess water back to the surface or down stream of the source (if river or brook)

- turn your residential area into a lake and move everyone somewhere else.

- Get a large tank of compressed air to control the water level (not possible in DF)

In my history of playing the new version I never fed my water system directly from the river and I never used pumps before so I don't know if any of these would work in the game.

[Shadowlord]

quote:Originally posted by Klokjammer:
<STRONG>I don't see how it would stop on its own.  This is exactly how water works in real life.</STRONG>

Not necessarily.

code:

  |---|
  |~~~|
  |~~~|  
| |~~~|
|~~~~~|
|------

- and | are solid barriers, ~ is water.

In real life, a glass/plastic/whatever mason jar filled with water, with a base with a single hole in it screwed onto it, turned over so that the base is on the bottom, does not overflow - the water doesn't flow over the sides of the base, and more or less only fills the base up to the top of the hole, if that.

And then there's the odder example of a drinking straw that you fill with water, block one end, and hold it up with the open end down without any water getting out.

[axus]

technically... the final state would be a total flood, unless his cave was sealed off.  Though if it were sealed off, some air would go up the pipe to let water in, but water would never go up at any point.  In the cave environment, the rate of incoming water would be restricted to the rate air was leaving his fortress, I guess by being pushed out the front door.  

I'm sure the calculation is a lot faster when its not considering air pressure, it's generally going to be accurate that water rises to the level of the water source, and assume an open air system.

[JBWilliams]

quote:In real life, a glass/plastic/whatever mason jar filled with water, with a base with a single hole in it screwed onto it, turned over so that the base is on the bottom, does not overflow - the water doesn't flow over the sides of the base, and more or less only fills the base up to the top of the hole, if that.

And then there's the odder example of a drinking straw that you fill with water, block one end, and hold it up with the open end down without any water getting out.

Both of those examples rely on air pressure to function, and the latter also requires surface tension (which is only relevant in a very narrow tube--like a straw).

[Nekojin]

Unless the area above the intial drop is AIRTIGHT (and, AFAIK, there are no promises about Dwarven floodgates being airtight - only water-tight), you're GOING to get flooding in that lower hallway. Water will try to equalize its level across all surfaces, if it can. Only in the cases of a vacuum or airtight volume will it not behave in this way.

[GreyMario]

As stated before, this is indeed supposed to happen, as there is no concept of air in DF (yet).

The solution? Block off the source of water using a floodgate.

Also, another idea:

code:

XXXXXXX
X     X
X     <
~~~~~XX
X~~~~~X
F~~~~~X
XXXXXXX
X - wall
< = up-stair
~ = water
F = floodgate

With that situation, you can always control the water and prevent murky water from being an issue. When it becomes murky (except in winter, unless you have an underground source of water) just open the floodgate, which is attached to a large underground path to one of the map edges. Water falls off the edges of the map. The water is replaced by cleaner water, and your dwarves are happy.

[ November 16, 2007: Message edited by: GreyMario ]

[Griz]

I did that and it got a little weird. I had a floodgate at the river, and a floodgate at the bottom of a 2-level reservoir with a well on top. I don't remember exactly what the conditions were, but there was one combination of floodgate settings where the water would only fill the bottom of the reservoir.

when trying to top off the reservoir by opening the top gate to fill the tube, closing it, then opening the bottom gate, the water would come out incredibly fast and fill up the entire meeting hall above the reservoir even though that would have required more water than there was in the tube.

[GreyMario]

The issue is the not-diagrammed stuff. Assuming you use a pump to limit the flow of your water (or to get it in the first place), you can easily prevent such an event.