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[Jim Groovester]

Mostly pressure, but also mounting suspicion due to his 'winging' story.

Do elaborate.

What do you make of him being missing?

Point? Stop being a stupid jester. They simply make town waste a day. Stance? Stupid jester.

This is bullshit.

If he was a jester, he was right on course to being lynched already. Tying the vote at the literal last minute is completely counterproductive and entirely inconsistent with anything a jester would do. So clearly the reply wasn't to point out that you thought he was a jester, because that would've been stupid. Incredibly stupid. Ridiculously stupid.

Instead the reply must've been to distance yourself from the situation so that you could avoid taking a stand on it. Now why would you do that? Or maybe you'd like to correct me and tell me what was really going on.

Also, Jim for the same reason as yesterday.

How about you say it again so I can rip it apart.

[Dariush]

Do elaborate.

What is there to elaborate? I didn't have anything solid on him - that's why I changed my vote.

What do you make of him being missing?

That a Xeno abducted him. It's kinda obvious, really, since every other possible form of removing a player from the game results in destruction of surrounding or at least a corpse.

If he was a jester, he was right on course to being lynched already. Tying the vote at the literal last minute is completely counterproductive and entirely inconsistent with anything a jester would do. So clearly the reply wasn't to point out that you thought he was a jester, because that would've been stupid. Incredibly stupid. Ridiculously stupid.

WIFOM.

Instead the reply must've been to distance yourself from the situation so that you could avoid taking a stand on it. Now why would you do that? Or maybe you'd like to correct me and tell me what was really going on.

Are you stupid, moronic or COMPLETELY FUCKING CRAZY? Distancing myself from that 9-person bandwagon? Avoid taking a stand, despite me clearly stating that I considered OB a jester?

Also, Jim for the same reason as yesterday.

How about you say it again so I can rip it apart.

Nah, go look it up yourself, assfucker. I would've repeated it if you weren't so desperately attempting to... uh, I don't even know how to call your ridiculous accusations. Defence? OMGUS? Scumminess? Yeah, I'll settle on that last one.

[Mephansteras]

The Monitor
Jim Groovester: Dariush
NUKE9.13: Leafsnail
Pandarsenic: Jim Groovester


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[NUKE9.13]

I came here with the intent of spending a few hours completely rereading the thread, meticulously noting down each players behaviour in a little text document, and then seriously cracking down and figuring out who amongst them looked the scummiest-
But yeah, no, OB

So, Nuke, I'm sure that you've got your promised analysis now, riiiiiight?

You'd be surprised. Or rather, you wouldn't be. (No I do not)
I figured that there would be enough information gained from the results of the lynch and NKs that a post-by-post analysis would be unnecessary.

Dariush: I really, really don't want to get into an argument with you... but dude, calm down, read what you have written, then smack yourself in the forehead.
A)That isn't WIFOM, and even if it was, you should still respond to it.
B)When proving someone is scum, the burden of proof is on you. It is your responsibility to make your case clear.

Shakerag, I have a question. Why did you end the day with an RVS vote still in place?

[Shakerag]

Shakerag, I have a question. Why did you end the day with an RVS vote still in place?

I wasn't satisfied with the responses I had been given so far, I was waiting for Pandarsenic to respond to my last post directed at him, and because I was wanting to get more content from him in general.  He's been a little scarce this game, unlike what he was stating in response to Jim early D1.

A question for you: I've certainly had it impressed upon me on my time in Beginner's games that analyzing NKs is unproductive.  By your first post D2 here, you seem to think otherwise.  Why?

Jim:  Any reason why MBP was left off your list of unsatisfactory contributors?

Leafsnail and IronyOwl:  You both seemed to strongly believe OB was scum.  Were you surprised at all to see him flip town?

[NUKE9.13]

A question for you: I've certainly had it impressed upon me on my time in Beginner's games that analyzing NKs is unproductive.  By your first post D2 here, you seem to think otherwise.  Why?

The answer is in the question. You have had it impressed upon you in Beginner's games. You have been to Mafia school, and you have been told: this is how the game works. WIFOM is evil, non-conformity is scummy, and analyzing NKs is unproductive.

I never played Beginner's games. I started playing Mafia back before there was even a subforum for it, if I recall correctly. I learnt on the go, as it were. Sure, it sucked sometimes- god damn, if you read over an old game, there are obvscum all over the place. But we learnt. Terms were picked up from that one wiki place, and brought into circulation. We learnt about common scumtells, about how to play as both town and scum. And slowly but surely, there formed a respectable, knowledgeable, capable mafia community.

And then. And then. I noticed it quite early. RVS was used too much, and for too long. But no biggy, right? Right. And then. OMGUS, bandwagon, WIFOM- these terms changed from being shorthand for scummy things far more complex to scummy things in their own right. And then. I stopped playing for a year, I come back, what do I find?

A sub-forum full of conformists. Students of the New School. If you don't conform to the standards of mafia, as taught in Beginners, you are not just wrong, you are, in fact, scum.
I made a big deal of protesting this. I still do. I proudly adhere to- an admittedly idealized version of- the Old School. From back in the day, when no one knew what was right or wrong, but had to think all the time.

So, when you say 'Beginners has taught me this' as if that somehow makes it true, it sets my blood BOILING.

Shakerag, I have a question. Why did you end the day with an RVS vote still in place?

I wasn't satisfied with the responses I had been given so far, I was waiting for Pandarsenic to respond to my last post directed at him, and because I was wanting to get more content from him in general.  He's been a little scarce this game, unlike what he was stating in response to Jim early D1.

And when he failed to respond, you saw no need to draw attention to this? Point out to others that he was lurking, maybe try to pressure him into responding?
See, it looks like you were content to just let the whole OB thing play out, whilst you sat back on the excuse that 'Pandar hasn't answered my questions yet'.

[Jim Groovester]

WIFOM.

Haha, that was easy. Didn't think I could do it within two replies of opening the day.

That isn't WIFOM. It's not WIFOM to point out obvious flaws in a theory you came up with. Calling it WIFOM was the wrong reaction. An overreaction.

How's it going, scum? Of course, scum is a very general term, and I should be more specific since I don't think you're part of the dopp team.

Why did you abduct Urist Imiknorris?

Jim:  Any reason why MBP was left off your list of unsatisfactory contributors?

Not really. It's not an exhaustive list; he easily could have been on it if it crossed my mind to include him.

[Jack A T]

<snip>

NUKE: Over the course of five paragraphs, you never gave a real answer to Shakerag's question.  You ranted about beginner's games and old school and new school and mafia and mafia terms and conformity, but you never actually explained why you feel that analyzing NKs is productive.  Unless (paraphrased) "Because BM says it isn't" is your only reason for your belief, and I very strongly doubt that you are so much of a contrarian that you would have beliefs for absolutely no reason other than to disagree with BMs.  So, please actually answer the question, and give some reason why you think your belief is true.

If he was a jester, he was right on course to being lynched already. Tying the vote at the literal last minute is completely counterproductive and entirely inconsistent with anything a jester would do. So clearly the reply wasn't to point out that you thought he was a jester, because that would've been stupid. Incredibly stupid. Ridiculously stupid.

WIFOM.

Dariush: No. So, how exactly is preventing oneself from being lynched a jestertell?

Of course, scum is a very general term, and I should be more specific since I don't think you're part of the dopp team.

Jim: Why?

[Jim Groovester]

Of course, scum is a very general term, and I should be more specific since I don't think you're part of the dopp team.

Jim: Why?

Lots and lots of gut feeling.

At the beginning of the day, I did a quick scan of the thread, and Dariush was the only person who popped up who really had anything negative to say about Urist Imiknorris. I figure that if I were the Xenozoologist, I would snatch up all the people I thought were anti-town first, because there are only so many of them compared to the rest of the town.

I can't think of any other potential Xenozoologist who would snatch up Urist Imiknorris first, based on the stated opinions of everybody during Day 1. Of course, there's WIFOM, and there's lurkers who haven't really stated their opinion at all, so ultimately it all adds up to a gut feeling.

[Leafsnail]

That a Xeno abducted him. It's kinda obvious, really, since every other possible form of removing a player from the game results in destruction of surrounding or at least a corpse.

I think I'll point out that this isn't true.  An exterminator can perform an abduction style kill, although it wears off the following morning so it doesn't seem like such a great idea.

Are you stupid, moronic or COMPLETELY FUCKING CRAZY? Distancing myself from that 9-person bandwagon? Avoid taking a stand, despite me clearly stating that I considered OB a jester?

Frankly, I'm not remotely sorry for driving a lynch on OB since his actions screamed scum from the rooftops.  Nor am I worried about people "bandwagoning" on him since his actions screamed scum so loudly.  What I'm more worried about is people not voting him for flimsy and nonsensical reasons and then saying "I told you so" afterwards.  I mean, there's one easy way you could know for sure he's not a doppelganger in spite of him acting just like one.

You'd be surprised. Or rather, you wouldn't be. (No I do not)
I figured that there would be enough information gained from the results of the lynch and NKs that a post-by-post analysis would be unnecessary.

Ok then.  Please provide your devastating analysis of these.

Leafsnail and IronyOwl:  You both seemed to strongly believe OB was scum.  Were you surprised at all to see him flip town?

Yes, and I'd say that everyone except OB himself and doppelgangers should be equally surprised considering his actions yesterday.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Shakerag:

I wasn't satisfied with the responses I had been given so far, I was waiting for Pandarsenic to respond to my last post directed at him, and because I was wanting to get more content from him in general.  He's been a little scarce this game, unlike what he was stating in response to Jim early D1.

So you had NO OTHER thought on any other player? The events surrounding OrangeBottle didn't hold any kind of interest for you? Were you watching the game at all? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on other players besides Pandarsenic - in fact, I want to hear what you have to say on Pandar as well, since you appear to have spent so much time on the lookout for him.

Jim:

I can't think of any other potential Xenozoologist who would snatch up Urist Imiknorris first, based on the stated opinions of everybody during Day 1. Of course, there's WIFOM, and there's lurkers who haven't really stated their opinion at all, so ultimately it all adds up to a gut feeling.

Soooo much WIFOM here, but I find myself agreeing with the basic idea of it. I didn't see anyone else that stood out as focusing their attention on Urist I prior to his disappearance either. However, is the WIFOM enough for you to vote based on it, or will you leave a pressure vote on the ever-absent Pandarsenic? This smacks of the plan that was just leveled against Shakerag.

Jack:

Dariush: No. So, how exactly is preventing oneself from being lynched a jestertell?

Is this enough reason for you to vote him?

[Jim Groovester]

Soooo much WIFOM here, but I find myself agreeing with the basic idea of it. I didn't see anyone else that stood out as focusing their attention on Urist I prior to his disappearance either. However, is the WIFOM enough for you to vote based on it, or will you leave a pressure vote on the ever-absent Pandarsenic? This smacks of the plan that was just leveled against Shakerag.

I dunno. I'm thinking it over and the Xenozoologist doesn't seem like that big of a threat. It's only four players: one dopp, one alien, one townie, and one psychic townie. And if he dies, all those players come back. And he has less tech, and doesn't take players away if he already has one from the category he needs. He's like a lamer version of the Exterminator with less chance of winning.

If Dariush is the Xenozoologist, I'm not sure we should care. I think he's a bigger threat to the dopps than the town, since the dopps lose a lot more with one of their number gone than the town does. I think we'd probably be better off just looking for dopps instead of getting rid of him.

Also, to which plan against Shakerag are you referring? The one where he just sat around all day waiting for Pandarsenic to get back?

Yeah, I'm not doing that. I can keep a pressure vote on a lurker and still keep my eyes open enough to hunt.

[NativeForeigner]

Busy. It's the holidays, after all.

Extend, past Christmas if possible. I don't see the next few days clearing up enough for a decent post.

[Urist_McArathos]

MOD: Prod MBP.  He hasn't posted since just after voting me in RVS. 

NUKE:

Are you going to be helpful today?  Because between dicking around voting Shakerag for no reason ("but lol it was RVS so random tiemz"), then voting me for attacking Shark ("allow me to over-analyze why he's over-analyzing"), then just fading into the background and throwing a quick bandwagon vote on OB, I don't think you did a single productive thing all damn day.

Extend.  I fully intend to be absent through Christmas weekend.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Again, having a hard time posting right now.