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[Jim Groovester]

Unvote.  Orangebottle is strongly reminding me of his play in Ockham's, as town.  He seems confused in the same basic way as he did in Ockham's.  My read on him wasn't very strong anyway, so, onwards.

So basically exactly what I've been saying all along.

Read on him wasn't very strong my ass. Did you always know that your vote on Orangebottle was flimsy, or is this a recent development?

And how did it take you this long to figure this out?

Jim: Let me get this straight: you consider it rather scummy to agree with (parts of) Leafsnail's case, because you disagree completely with the case, but you don't tend to get anywhere when arguing with Leafsnail about things you disagree with, so you're deciding to skip arguing with him about his case, and are just arguing with everyone who (partially) agrees with him about his case?  And, while you find the anti-OB argument rather scummy, it isn't really impacting your read on Leafsnail much?

It sounds like you're describing someone who has a problem with people bandwagoning. That sounds like me! Very much like me, in fact.

But it also sounds like you're trying to describe it as a crime.

*About how much of an effect does the anti-OB case have on your read of Leafsnail?

I've already explained this to Leafsnail.

The case is a misread. I disagree with it but I don't think Leafsnail is scummy for coming up with it.

*How the hell do you actually figure out whether Leafsnail is scum or not?

I find him unreadable most of the time, since he has a strong game.

Extend since it would be criminal to have the day end now that there's a decent argument going on.

[Urist_McArathos]

Extend, Unvote since Shark is clearly not going to talk while being replaced.

[NUKE9.13]

McArathos, as I mentioned, looks to be scum looking for an easy D1 lynch; someone who made a clear mistake, which can easily be exaggerated, and through the application of (undue) pressure enhanced in a marinade of inexperience and panic. His case on Shark was valid, to an extent, but it felt... to well thought out, as it were. Like he thought "here is someone vaguely scummy, now how can I make them look scummier".

And this feels...too much like bullshit to ignore. You're going to lynch someone for thinking too much?

Yes.
Please put your kneejerk 'OH MY GOD HE ISN'T PLAYING THE WAY I LEARNT TO PLAY' reaction aside for a moment. Read what I have written. Think about it. See? Not so bad, is it?

Nuke: That's great and all, but it still doesn't explain why you used your just-now attack on OB as proof that you didn't suspect Shark. Why did you feel the need to prove yourself like that, and how is that supposed to mean anything?

...what?
I think you may be confused. If not, could you explain what you are referring to?

Leafsnail: I stopped doing lolrandom crap here. Everything after that, serious business.

McArathos, as I mentioned, looks to be scum looking for an easy D1 lynch; someone who made a clear mistake, which can easily be exaggerated, and through the application of (undue) pressure enhanced in a marinade of inexperience and panic. His case on Shark was valid, to an extent, but it felt... to well thought out, as it were. Like he thought "here is someone vaguely scummy, now how can I make them look scummier".

This is just plain silly.  I saw something scummy, and clearly stated why I felt that way.  You're seriously criticizing me for thinking my actions through before voting?

Yes.
Did you really think that Shark's slip was born from scum malice rather than town stupidity?
Well, maybe you did. Looking back, it looks more justified than I remember.
Never mind, unvote.

Nuke:  You're on to Shark about over-analyzing- don't you think you're doing the same thing here?

Firstly, I was on to McArathos for over analyzing.
Secondly, my analysis was requested by others.


I have no suspicions.

[Orangebottle]

McArathos, as I mentioned, looks to be scum looking for an easy D1 lynch; someone who made a clear mistake, which can easily be exaggerated, and through the application of (undue) pressure enhanced in a marinade of inexperience and panic. His case on Shark was valid, to an extent, but it felt... to well thought out, as it were. Like he thought "here is someone vaguely scummy, now how can I make them look scummier".

And this feels...too much like bullshit to ignore. You're going to lynch someone for thinking too much?

Yes.
Please put your kneejerk 'OH MY GOD HE ISN'T PLAYING THE WAY I LEARNT TO PLAY' reaction aside for a moment. Read what I have written. Think about it. See? Not so bad, is it?

I tried that. It still feels like bullshit. Mainly because this is a game about thinking and logic.

Yes.
Did you really think that Shark's slip was born from scum malice rather than town stupidity?
Well, maybe you did. Looking back, it looks more justified than I remember.
Never mind, unvote.

:|
You're just going to keep slinging shitty cases at people? I'm more than content with where my vote is right now.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I have no suspicions.

This seems very unlike you. Care to explain why?

[Mephansteras]

The Monitor
Jim Groovester: Dariush, Jack AT
NUKE9.13: Orangebottle
Orangebottle: Leafsnail, NativeForeigner, Pandarsenic, Shark
Pandarsenic: Shakerag
Shark: IronyOwl, Jim Groovester, Urist Imiknorris
Urist_McArathos: Mysteriousbluepuppet


Day ends ~5pm Pacific today. There is 1 vote to Extend the day to ~5pm Pacific Thursday. 4 Total votes needed for the Extension.

[Dariush]

Isn't whether the question is stupid or not a subjective point instead of an objective one?

StrReplace("If the question is","If the majority of players thinks the question is");

If the question is stupid and he says it's not stupid, it's a scumtell.

What's your reasoning on this?

Logic. I'd look askew on a person who (for example) answers with anything significantly different from 'fuck you, hang, scum' when asked 'What is your role?' (i.e. an existent role, regardless of whether it's the correct one).

I missed it. How exactly am I supposed to explain how did I miss it?

Well, how much attention are you paying to the game?

I'm sorry, I can't seem to find the units for measuring attention in the SI table.

Jim, don't ignore me. You accuse Shark of bandwagoning despite doing the same thing to him for this sole reason and additionally when he can't defend himself. Doesn't it look like hypocrisy to you? Because it sure does to me.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Extend. Finals.

[NUKE9.13]

I have no suspicions.

This seems very unlike you. Care to explain why?

I have reread the thread, and no one stands out as scummy.
Why?
Because this board's day game has become so ritualized and monotone that it requires almost no effort on the part of scum to blend in.

I tried that. It still feels like bullshit. Mainly because this is a game about thinking and logic.

Uh huh.
Imagine if you will: You are the scum, and it is D1. You want to mislynch someone. What do you do?
If you don't bandwagon, or lurk and hope wait for the town to hit themselves, you must find someone who looks scummy but isn't, then try to make them look extra scummy.
So, find someone who makes a mistake. Now, explain why this mistake is scummy. Damn; this is not a very big case. It doesn't quite justify an actual lynch yet. Okay then, expand on it. Analyse each detail, and explain how it shows him to be scum. Completely ignore the possibility that it could stem from ignorance/an honest mistake.
That is what I was accusing McArathos of doing.

:|
You're just going to keep slinging shitty cases at people? I'm more than content with where my vote is right now.

I am going to unvote if, on reflection, the case is not as solid as I thought.
Would you rather I did not?

[Shakerag]

I'd like to ask Jokerman and Toaster why they are abstaining from voting when the day may end shortly.

Polly want a cracker?

Because two people can't possibly come up with the same idea independently from each other, am I right? 

Your answer, for the record, is "No, I will not help you choose which techs to take, Alien."

Is this supposed to be in reference to the next Paranormal game?  I can't fathom what you're getting at here.  Unless I'm missing something completely, the rules seem to state that anyone getting an Alien Tech would be doing so before the game starts, so how would this have an effect on the current game?  You're being awfully dodgy for just an RVS question. 

Extend. Finals.

So I'm getting the impression that the majority of people here are in high school/college. 

[Orangebottle]

Imagine if you will: You are the scum, and it is D1. You want to mislynch someone. What do you do?
If you don't bandwagon, or lurk and hope wait for the town to hit themselves, you must find someone who looks scummy but isn't, then try to make them look extra scummy.
So, find someone who makes a mistake. Now, explain why this mistake is scummy. Damn; this is not a very big case. It doesn't quite justify an actual lynch yet. Okay then, expand on it. Analyse each detail, and explain how it shows him to be scum. Completely ignore the possibility that it could stem from ignorance/an honest mistake.
That is what I was accusing McArathos of doing.

There's also a possibility which you don't seem to have considered: that McArathos knew that he was inexperienced and was explaining it for that reason.

:|
You're just going to keep slinging shitty cases at people? I'm more than content with where my vote is right now.

I am going to unvote if, on reflection, the case is not as solid as I thought.
Would you rather I did not?

I'd rather you vote when you have a solid case instead of immediately flinging whatever you have and waiting for something to come up later.
Jack:

Unvote.  Orangebottle is strongly reminding me of his play in Ockham's, as town.  He seems confused in the same basic way as he did in Ockham's.  My read on him wasn't very strong anyway, so, onwards.

This is interesting.

I saw Orangebottle as the scummiest player at the time (and still do)

Hmmm...
Scummiest player, and then you don't really have a strong read on me? How does that work?

[Toaster]

Extend, sure.


Jim:

Jim:  It may have been clear to you, but I still wanted to hear you say it.  What makes you think so?  It can't be his day game, since according to you it is "shitty".  Your later comment seems to indicate that it's because of the nature of the attacks on him- is that the case?

Shitty play isn't necessarily scummy play. He's making many of the same mistakes I saw him make as town in other games. (Particularly Wild Wild West Mafia. See my reply to Leafsnail.) Essentially, I recognize his meta, even if it's objectively terrible play.

The attacks on him by other players don't really affect my opinion of him very much.

Your arguments don't tell me that you think he's town.  From what I read, you're telling me you don't think he's scum... because he's a bad player?  That's the Org defense, and it's not any more valid here than when he did it.  You should know better than that.

So why not say so when voting him?  Or vote him right when you commented on it?

I asked him some questions and wanted to see his answers before I made a decision. I pointed out the hypocrisy of him ditching as soon as he started facing questions considering his vote on Orangebottle because I wanted to, instead of stating the reason for my vote.

I suppose I should have been clearer.

Nuke:

Nuke:  You're on to Shark about over-analyzing- don't you think you're doing the same thing here?

Firstly, I was on to McArathos for over analyzing.
Secondly, my analysis was requested by others.


I have no suspicions.

1.  Oops.
2.  Fair enough.

3.  You should get some.

Because this board's day game has become so ritualized and monotone that it requires almost no effort on the part of scum to blend in.

You've shown yourself capable of thinking outside the box and coming up with new tactics.  Why aren't you doing so?  If not that, why not attempt to work inside the box and come up with attacks on others?  I don't believe that you have zero ideas on how to proceed.


Dariush:

Isn't whether the question is stupid or not a subjective point instead of an objective one?

StrReplace("If the question is","If the majority of players thinks the question is");

That feels like a lazy way to attack, but I don't think it scummy of you.  Whatever.


Shakerag:

Unless I'm missing something completely, the rules seem to state that anyone getting an Alien Tech would be doing so before the game starts, so how would this have an effect on the current game?

At least as of last time I played an alien, techs are picked during D1, not pregame.

[Mephansteras]

Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Thursday. There will be no more Extensions this day.

[Toaster]

Don't you mean Thursday?

[Mephansteras]

Don't you mean Thursday?

I have no idea what you're talking about.