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Author Topic: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Game Over!  (Read 62892 times)

Jack A T

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #150 on: December 13, 2011, 10:39:14 am »

Oh, right, and Extend.  Getting this in quickly before school.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #151 on: December 13, 2011, 11:35:37 am »

The Monitor
Jim Groovester: Dariush
NUKE9.13: Orangebottle
Orangebottle: Jack AT, Leafsnail, NativeForeigner, Pandarsenic, Shark
Pandarsenic: Shakerag
Shark: IronyOwl, Jim Groovester, Urist Imiknorris, Urist_McArathos
Urist_McArathos: Mysteriousbluepuppet, NUKE9.13



Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. There is one vote to Extend the day to ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. Three more votes needed to extend the day.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #152 on: December 13, 2011, 01:53:50 pm »

Shakerag: Saw then forgot that question, but it doesn't make sense anyway. What do you mean, items? Alien Technologies?

Jack A T, why Orangebottle's RVS question reasoning was scummy: Because he's throwing WIFOM like candy.

Extend

Shakerag, I'll have an answer and some questions for you, pending clarification.
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #153 on: December 13, 2011, 02:47:15 pm »

Nuke:  You're on to Shark about over-analyzing- don't you think you're doing the same thing here?


Jim:  It may have been clear to you, but I still wanted to hear you say it.  What makes you think so?  It can't be his day game, since according to you it is "shitty".  Your later comment seems to indicate that it's because of the nature of the attacks on him- is that the case?

On that subject, why exactly are you voting Shark?  It looks more like a policy lynch than anything else right now.

Mostly because of flimsily justified bandwagon vote. Or rather, the only thing of content he posted before ditching the game.

So why not say so when voting him?  Or vote him right when you commented on it?


Dariush:
Dariush:
It's dependent on both, or rather whether the reality and the impression coincide.
How so?
If the question is stupid and he says it's stupid, it's a nulltell.
If the question is not stupid and he says it's not stupid, it's a nulltell.
If the question is not stupid and he says it's stupid, it's a scumtell.
If the question is stupid and he says it's not stupid, it's a scumtell.

Isn't whether the question is stupid or not a subjective point instead of an objective one?



Extend.
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Shakerag

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #154 on: December 13, 2011, 03:03:12 pm »

Shakerag: Saw then forgot that question, but it doesn't make sense anyway. What do you mean, items? Alien Technologies?

Yes, the Alien technologies.  They were called items in the roles spoiler, so that's what I was referring to.  Although, I suppose the Mad Scientist would have items as well.  Is that what was causing the confusion?

Extend, prod request for MBP, and I'd like to ask Jokerman and Toaster why they are abstaining from voting when the day may end shortly. 

PPE: ohai Toaster.  I guess the day isn't ending today.  Still curious to hear about your leads if any. 

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #155 on: December 13, 2011, 03:25:41 pm »

I'd like to ask Jokerman and Toaster why they are abstaining from voting when the day may end shortly.
Polly want a cracker?

Jim: Anything else about Shark strike you as scummy?

Extend because enough votes is never enough.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #156 on: December 13, 2011, 05:15:47 pm »

Dariush:
If the question is stupid and he says it's not stupid, it's a scumtell.
What's your reasoning on this?

I missed it. How exactly am I supposed to explain how did I miss it?
Well, how much attention are you paying to the game?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #157 on: December 13, 2011, 05:44:44 pm »

Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Wednesday.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1
« Reply #158 on: December 13, 2011, 08:26:03 pm »

Not only did I say I was agreeing with you, but I was actually doing something with your point instead of just sitting there with it like you were.
The problem was that you were bandwagonning (and that Jim apparently didn't care about that particular brand of bandwagonning).

Your rebuttal is that you were bandwagonning.

I'm trying to figure out how Jim implied that he hates your case. Would you please explain?
By bashing people for agreeing with my point, saying that people were abusing Orangebottle's shitty day game (shitty but definitely town, Jim can just tell these things), saying that the stuff on Orangebottle was baseless.

Part of Orangebottle's shitty day game is that he doesn't know how to defend himself when he gets attacked, opting to defer to his attacker's opinion very frequently. He did this in Wild West Mafia and I lynched him for it on Day 3, after almost lynching him for it on Day 2. I'm sure I could find other examples if I really wanted to, but it satisfies me enough that this isn't too far from normal for him.
He didn't "defer to my opinion" so much as "try to deflect as much as possible until it became clear he could no longer lie" (not mentioning the bandwagonning and stuff).  I'm not sure what it would require for you to think Orangebottle is scum - it doesn't seem like you to give people a free pass this game due to past idiocy.
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #159 on: December 13, 2011, 08:41:59 pm »

I am alive, i know its gettign old but i'm still swamped. Tought id be better off with 2 exams gone, but the 2 left i goty are ruining my sleep schedule. My apologies
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #160 on: December 13, 2011, 08:49:49 pm »

Shakerag: Saw then forgot that question, but it doesn't make sense anyway. What do you mean, items? Alien Technologies?

Yes, the Alien technologies.  They were called items in the roles spoiler, so that's what I was referring to.  Although, I suppose the Mad Scientist would have items as well.  Is that what was causing the confusion?

Your answer, for the record, is "No, I will not help you choose which techs to take, Alien."
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #161 on: December 13, 2011, 09:40:25 pm »

Shakerag:  My suspects are the people I've been questioning- chiefly Jim, for shaky vote and odd vote behavior (outlined in past posts of mine.)  I want to hear a couple more answers before I vote- I intend to do so before day end.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #162 on: December 13, 2011, 09:51:51 pm »

Also, I have to wonder now: how strongly do you suspect Leafsnail?

Not that much.

Arguing with Leafsnail about things I completely disagree with him on is something I've done a lot of in previous games with him. It never seems to amount to anything and I never get a strong read either way. I'm generally left concluding, "Well, I guess we just don't see eye to eye," and his game is strong enough that there's usually more than enough of what he's doing in other areas that it's hard to suspect him for whatever I disagree with him about.

Same deal here, except I decided not to argue with him about it since I knew how that would go.

Jim:  It may have been clear to you, but I still wanted to hear you say it.  What makes you think so?  It can't be his day game, since according to you it is "shitty".  Your later comment seems to indicate that it's because of the nature of the attacks on him- is that the case?

Shitty play isn't necessarily scummy play. He's making many of the same mistakes I saw him make as town in other games. (Particularly Wild Wild West Mafia. See my reply to Leafsnail.) Essentially, I recognize his meta, even if it's objectively terrible play.

The attacks on him by other players don't really affect my opinion of him very much.

So why not say so when voting him?  Or vote him right when you commented on it?

I asked him some questions and wanted to see his answers before I made a decision. I pointed out the hypocrisy of him ditching as soon as he started facing questions considering his vote on Orangebottle because I wanted to, instead of stating the reason for my vote.

I suppose I should have been clearer.

Jim: Anything else about Shark strike you as scummy?

He only made the one post, so no.

He didn't "defer to my opinion" so much as "try to deflect as much as possible until it became clear he could no longer lie" (not mentioning the bandwagonning and stuff).  I'm not sure what it would require for you to think Orangebottle is scum - it doesn't seem like you to give people a free pass this game due to past idiocy.

You're not the only person he's bowing his head in supplication to, saying "Forgive me, mafia-samas, for the error of my mafia ways."

Look, man. He did this exact same thing in Wild West Mafia. I attacked him for reversing himself on some issue after I pressured him extensively over it. I asked him what was up and he admitted that he was just trying to get me off of his case. But Jim! That's super scummy! And yes it is, and did he ever pay for it in that game, but he was town then and apparently thinks that's a good way to handle attacks. The inductive part of my brain reasons that he's making the same godawful mistake here.

Your answer, for the record, is "No, I will not help you choose which techs to take, Alien."

Refusal to answer is retarded since this is an issue that has never, ever, ever come up in a game before. Meanwhile, they are situations that you could realistically face as a player in the game and your answer provides insight into how you think, which is not an unreasonable thing to seek, and that it's more than well understood that hypothetical questions yield hypothetical answers that are inapplicable and the only thing being gained is insight.

So why are you refusing? It's dumb. I guess you must be hiding something.
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Orangebottle

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1
« Reply #163 on: December 14, 2011, 02:32:59 am »

Not only did I say I was agreeing with you, but I was actually doing something with your point instead of just sitting there with it like you were.
The problem was that you were bandwagonning (and that Jim apparently didn't care about that particular brand of bandwagonning).

Your rebuttal is that you were bandwagonning.
Apparently you don't know what bandwagoning is. I'm going to take this slowly because you apparently lack a brain. Let me spell it out for you:

Quote from: Beginner's Mafia
Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum
Now, here's what I said in the post we're referring to:
I can really feel you trying to end the RVS you hate so much by asking RVS type questions after the RVS has finished.
I agree with Leafsnail here, NUKE. What did you intend to accomplish with that question? Why don't you scumhunt instead of sitting there with your thumb up your ass? Your vote is sitting on Shakerag for what appears to be no reason, and I'm pretty sure the only reason you went by unnoticed is because of me arguing with leafsnail.
According to Mephansteras, I was the only person voting for NUKE.

Let's go back to that post, shall we? This time we'll look at reasons for voting for NUKE.
I can really feel you trying to end the RVS you hate so much by asking RVS type questions after the RVS has finished.
I agree with Leafsnail here, NUKE. What did you intend to accomplish with that question? Why don't you scumhunt instead of sitting there with your thumb up your ass? Your vote is sitting on Shakerag for what appears to be no reason,  and I'm pretty sure the only reason you went by unnoticed is because of me arguing with leafsnail.
Those reasons seem pretty solid to me. In sum, I'm voting him because he is acting against his incredibly strong hatred of RVS(which is very unusual for him), he's not really scumhunting, and he's voting for shakerag for the most ridiculous reasons one could ever dream of(re: Shakerag couldn't/wouldn't provide him with a method of ending RVS).

The only criteria I fit is not wanting him lynched previously which, quite frankly, is stupid.
So excuse me when I don't believe your accusation of bandwagoning.
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Jack A T

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 20 - Stalkers in Space - Day 1 - REPLACEMENT requested
« Reply #164 on: December 14, 2011, 03:45:24 am »

Unvote.  Orangebottle is strongly reminding me of his play in Ockham's, as town.  He seems confused in the same basic way as he did in Ockham's.  My read on him wasn't very strong anyway, so, onwards.

Thus, I'm moving on to my new top suspect: Jim.  I've noted a couple of my problems with him before today (lots of time spent just jabbing at anyone who voted OB with unimpressive content other than that, and failure to read a case as he criticized it).

More stuff on/for/with/etc. Jim:

Also, I have to wonder now: how strongly do you suspect Leafsnail?

Not that much.

Arguing with Leafsnail about things I completely disagree with him on is something I've done a lot of in previous games with him. It never seems to amount to anything and I never get a strong read either way. I'm generally left concluding, "Well, I guess we just don't see eye to eye," and his game is strong enough that there's usually more than enough of what he's doing in other areas that it's hard to suspect him for whatever I disagree with him about.

Same deal here, except I decided not to argue with him about it since I knew how that would go.
Jim: Let me get this straight: you consider it rather scummy to agree with (parts of) Leafsnail's case, because you disagree completely with the case, but you don't tend to get anywhere when arguing with Leafsnail about things you disagree with, so you're deciding to skip arguing with him about his case, and are just arguing with everyone who (partially) agrees with him about his case?  And, while you find the anti-OB argument rather scummy, it isn't really impacting your read on Leafsnail much?
*About how much of an effect does the anti-OB case have on your read of Leafsnail?
*How the hell do you actually figure out whether Leafsnail is scum or not?

Your answer, for the record, is "No, I will not help you choose which techs to take, Alien."
Pandarsenic: Why, exactly, is this your immediate reaction to Shakerag's question?  Do you have anything else against him?  Anything?
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