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[Telgin]

Searching has failed me, so here's a few questions about relationships.

First off: how exactly do relationships progress along the road to marriage?  I think in my 3 forts (still a bit of a noob) spanning over 20 years, I've had 1 marriage.  It happened randomly and so long ago I don't even remember the process of it getting there.  In my current fort, I ended up with 4 of my original 7 in two relationships (lovers) within a month of embarking.  It's been 3 game years, and... that's all there is. They're still lovers, but not married or anything yet.

Second: can you encourage dwarves along this path in any way?  My initial suspicion is that being a lover is a random offshoot of being a friend and can happen when friends are socializing.  If that's true, can I just sequester two dwarves together and hope this happens?  If they're already lovers, can you encourage them to get married this way?  What's the best way to pin them together?  My experience with burrows is that they're not all too reliable at getting dwarves to just stand in a spot.

Third: are grudges permanent? I'm suspecting yes, but would be happy to be proven wrong.  One of my starting 7 has grudges with just about everyone he talks to.  I suspect even if grudges weren't permanent, his abrasive personality would prevent him from recovering from them in any way.


Yes, I know making dwarves all friends is generally considered a bad idea for the tantrum spirals that can ensue, but this is for my community fort where the story matters a little more.  That, and after losing nearly half of the population of my last fort and nobody batted an eye, I thought it was time I maybe did finally get a tantrum spiral.  I don't feel like a proper dwarf yet.

[khearn]

Very small meeting areas (as small as 1x1) are quite effective in getting relationships to happen. They can also cause incredible happiness levels, well over 1000. Apparently they get high enough that having a few friends die doesn't cause tantrums, but I've never really tried it very much.

[Loud Whispers]

In my now dead Eugenics fortress (where I bred dwarves to make them stronger, faster /w/ lack of empathy e.t.c), I found locking them in an unassigned 3x3 bedroom is perfect! First 2-4 months they should become lovers, then on average it took another couple of months to become married £:
[More conversations = more they get to know each other]

Do not know each other - Passing acquaintance - Friend - Lover - Spouse

[proxn_punkd]

Dwarves won't marry without a nice place to throw a wedding reception party. Do you have a meeting hall, statue garden, or well?

[Loud Whispers]

Dwarves won't marry without a nice place to throw a wedding reception party. Do you have a meeting hall, statue garden, or well?

No, you just get the message that the couple have decided to forgo wedding ceremonies.

[Sphalerite]

As far as I can tell, grudges are permanent, and preclude becoming friends or lovers.

Whether dwarves become friends or grudges may be dependent on the personality values of each dwarf.  Dwarves with more similar personality traits may be more likely to become friends.

[Telgin]

Very small meeting areas (as small as 1x1) are quite effective in getting relationships to happen. They can also cause incredible happiness levels, well over 1000. Apparently they get high enough that having a few friends die doesn't cause tantrums, but I've never really tried it very much.

Interesting, hadn't considered doing that.  I would have thought that the odds of the two in question choosing the same area at the same time would be too small, but perhaps not.  I may give this a shot.

In my now dead Eugenics fortress (where I bred dwarves to make them stronger, faster /w/ lack of empathy e.t.c), I found locking them in an unassigned 3x3 bedroom is perfect! First 2-4 months they should become lovers, then on average it took another couple of months to become married £:
[More conversations = more they get to know each other]

Do not know each other - Passing acquaintance - Friend - Lover - Spouse

Ok, so that confirms that the relationships work like I thought.  What's the best way to get two specific dwarves in a bedroom for extended periods?  Stick some food and booze in there, assign a burrow to the bedroom and then assign them to the burrow?

[Loud Whispers]

Very small meeting areas (as small as 1x1) are quite effective in getting relationships to happen. They can also cause incredible happiness levels, well over 1000. Apparently they get high enough that having a few friends die doesn't cause tantrums, but I've never really tried it very much.

Interesting, hadn't considered doing that.  I would have thought that the odds of the two in question choosing the same area at the same time would be too small, but perhaps not.  I may give this a shot.

In my now dead Eugenics fortress (where I bred dwarves to make them stronger, faster /w/ lack of empathy e.t.c), I found locking them in an unassigned 3x3 bedroom is perfect! First 2-4 months they should become lovers, then on average it took another couple of months to become married £:
[More conversations = more they get to know each other]

Do not know each other - Passing acquaintance - Friend - Lover - Spouse

Ok, so that confirms that the relationships work like I thought.  What's the best way to get two specific dwarves in a bedroom for extended periods?  Stick some food and booze in there, assign a burrow to the bedroom and then assign them to the burrow?

Turn off all jobs, burrow them in, lock them in. Unburrow and assign all jobs back again. Keeping food and water inside is not required, as long as you keep an eye on them they won't die, and they'll be ecstatic from their chit chat, but it helps I guess to have back up. Open the door to let them eat/drink, then rinse and repeat.
(Or just give them food and water...)

[jcnorris00]

I suppose that the Dwarven Dating Game could be a variant of Dwarven Childcare.  Get them in a cozy little isolation chamber with two nice beds (they won't share a bed until they're married), two tables with chairs (in case they eat at the same time) and a 1-tile food stockpile.  Lock them in and dump food and booze directly on the food stockpile (don't forget to unforbid it).

[Loud Whispers]

No need for the pleasantries, the Dwarves will be ecstatic from their chit chat together

[Pukako]

In two YEARS playing DF, I have not had a SINGLE wedding...

Mind you, with fortress def mod and blood everywhere, that's not surprising.  If they could elope and leave the fortress, that would make more sense...

[Telgin]

So it looks like locking them in a room together is working reasonably well.  They're getting "talked with a lover recently" thoughts, so it's just a matter of time now.

Interestingly and somewhat unrelatedly, I think I've found that grudges are not permanent.  Of the original 7, one of my dwarves had grudges against 5 of the others.  Now he only has 1 grudge.  Unless I'm completely misremembering, but I'm pretty sure.

What sort of thing causes this, I'm not sure.  Perhaps being separated from and not talking to annoying acquaintances removes the grudge eventually.  I don't think he's friends with any of them, but doesn't hold a grudge anymore.  Odd.

[slink]

When burrows first went in, one of the things I tried was to make two lounges.  These were 11 x 11 meeting places also defined as burrows.  One was for singles and one was for married people and their children.  This required also that the entire fortress and outdoors be defined as a burrow common to everyone, so that normal life could continue outside breaks.

My theory was that the singles were wasting a lot of break time talking to married people and children, and not getting to know other singles better.  It took a lot of micromanagement but eventually I had almost everyone married off.  The exceptions were people who were listed as not being very sociable for one reason or another.

[Sunkwell]

I'm assuming having lots of friends will keep dwarves from tantrum, or all those forts full of couples spiraled shortly after a single death?

[Loud Whispers]

I'm assuming having lots of friends will keep dwarves from tantrum, or all those forts full of couples spiraled shortly after a single death?

If they keep talking, they could be the ones personally killing all 50 of their friends and not care. If their lover dies though, things can turn into a very !FUN! situation indeed......