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Author Topic: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Back to work!  (Read 152443 times)

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1980 on: May 29, 2012, 07:29:50 pm »

Is it just me, or are the bridges a bit weird? o_o I don't remember them looking that way in the game . .. are shadows added on later?

They're weird because FireRed has no underground bridge sprites. Thus I had to use the water bridge sprites from another route, which is why they look so weird. If you have a suggestion on how to improve it, that'd be nice.

Overall, it seems similar to what would actually be in the game.

Thanks!
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Skyrunner

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1981 on: May 29, 2012, 07:33:43 pm »

The far left bridge's lower end should be extended, because it looks a bit confusing right now o_O

I say ditto with the center bridge's upper end.

If there's a design thing that has to be kept, just ignore me :P
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bay12 lower boards IRC:irc.darkmyst.org @ #bay12lb
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iceball3

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1982 on: May 29, 2012, 07:36:20 pm »

Spoiler: (Not-so) Shiny Map (click to show/hide)

As you can see, I've gotten the base map down for my route. Now all I need to do is scripts, and of course testing the thing from the moon and back. If you have any suggestions/comments/criticism about the map, you should probably say it now.
A couple of suggestions, the bridges look VERY odd, mainly because they don't lie on any specific 'z level', and look just overlayed over everything. Just as well, the horizontal stairs ruin a lot of depth in their execution as well as a lot of very sharp edges on transitions. I'm pretty sure I could definitely freshen this up a bit, could you pass the version of hack to me with that map in it/direct me to where I can get it so I can make a few fixes? I've done an awful lot of experimenting with mapping before, so I think I'll be able to apply some fixes without changing the map structure too much.
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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1983 on: May 29, 2012, 07:39:54 pm »

I'll hand the hack over in a couple days. I just got a new laptop, so I'm still porting over everything to it. Sorry about that.
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Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1984 on: May 29, 2012, 09:16:18 pm »

Yeah I really like it. As iceball and others mentioned there are sharp edges and there's some weirdness with z-levels, but I haven't taken a look at the tileset you're using so I'm not sure how fixable the edges issues are. And even those issues aren't a problem with the design. Although, how do you get up the path in the middle? Is that meant to be an entrance only and not an exit?

And yeah, the bridges are going to be interesting since (as far as I could tell) there aren't actually any bridges in FireRed at all. Anywhere. What we ended up finding (and it looks like you ended up using) are the floating water bridge paths, but I didn't find any bridge tiles that let you walk on them and under them. Hopefully I'm wrong and/or you have the pathing information figured out!
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Skyrunner

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1985 on: May 29, 2012, 09:22:51 pm »

Hmm. That's rather weird :P I mean, even Emerald had bridges o_O

Question: Why do ROM hackers never hack D&P onwards?
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bay12 lower boards IRC:irc.darkmyst.org @ #bay12lb
"Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confoud, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and willfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish ... but they never lie" -- Look To Windward

Reudh

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1986 on: May 29, 2012, 09:26:08 pm »

Because D+P onwards use 3D models. We selected Fire/Leaf because they're the most advanced entirely 2D tile based ones.

So far there is no way to replace the 3D models in DPPtHGSS or BW.

Skyrunner

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1987 on: May 29, 2012, 09:27:29 pm »

By models, you mean the terrain, right?

... I suppose so. :I

I wonder how they made it in the first place ...
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bay12 lower boards IRC:irc.darkmyst.org @ #bay12lb
"Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confoud, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and willfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish ... but they never lie" -- Look To Windward

Reudh

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1988 on: May 29, 2012, 09:43:41 pm »

In-house dev tools that aren't accessible to anyone outside of Nintendo/Game Freak/Creatures inc.


The terrain in DPPt/HGSS are all 3D. All buildings are 3D. Some indoor objects are 3D, but for the most part they're still sprites.

On B/W it's all 3D except the overworld sprites.

Rose

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1989 on: May 29, 2012, 09:46:24 pm »

You sure it's not just 3d tiles?
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Reudh

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1990 on: May 29, 2012, 09:48:05 pm »

3D tiles would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?

I mean tiles as in they're all stored in a tileset. Gen IV onwards does away with this.

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1991 on: May 29, 2012, 09:50:57 pm »

All we need now is for someone to leak the source files for the dev tools :3

... More seriously, it would be nice if we could do 3D 'tiles' a la drag-and-plop... The recent games have nice little effects such as moving pokemon. I'm still waiting for my fully-3D environment pokemon. :P
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bay12 lower boards IRC:irc.darkmyst.org @ #bay12lb
"Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confoud, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and willfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish ... but they never lie" -- Look To Windward

Rose

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1992 on: May 29, 2012, 09:52:35 pm »

If I was 3d-izing pokemnon, I'd just use a very similar map format with just the tiles being 3d models instead of sprites.

Just because it's 3d doesn't mean each area is individually modelled.
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Reudh

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1993 on: May 29, 2012, 09:53:31 pm »

That aside, how're we all doin' with movesets and writing?

I'm going to try and finish off some of my unfinished writing. :P



Oh, I see what you mean, Japa.

Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Orthoclase & Microcline: Migrants always welcome!
« Reply #1994 on: May 29, 2012, 09:58:59 pm »

Actually, you know what, I'm going to actually point out things so you know what to improve instead of just handwaving. Sorry if some of this comes off as harsh (I tried to make it not sound that way), I REALLY want you to keep doing this so try and read it in a friendly voice. :P

Spoiler: Z-levels (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Pointy bits (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Curtains and drapes (click to show/hide)

Again, hopefully this comes off as constructive, I really like the overall flow of the path and it's just the tiling that needs practice. I'd actually advise against passing it off to iceball. Keep it to yourself and work on it (iceball, feel free to take a look at the layout of Headshoots that Glyphgryph posted/uploaded and work on that instead if you have time/want to map :) ). Feel free to keep posting updates (assuming others are ok with it) and definitely feel free to PM me. I'm going to be out of town for the next two weeks, but I'll have email/internet access so I should get back to you within a day.

Edit: oooook... this got really long. Oh well, deal with it. :P I added an edit into the z-levels part about stairs too, so look for that if you didn't see it.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 10:02:35 pm by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.
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