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[Confused111]

I'd heard it's quality of material, but I'd also heard it was based on the weight of the shield. I checked the wiki and it doesn't really provide any information on that matter. Can anyone help me out?

[proxn_punkd]

Shields have a seldom-used bashing attack, which as a blunt weapon deals damage based on weight. So for that, in theory, heavy materials like silver are ideal.

However, shields are more often used to block attacks, which can apparently be done with any shield by a sufficiently skilled dwarf, but has the same risks as armor-- silver armor, while shiny, is heavy and soft enough to be impractical. Most users will try to give their dwarves lightweight, strong shields made from things like steel or *coughing fit*, so their dwarves can move about quickly and defend well.

So I'd vouch for bronze or steel shields.

[Garath]

or *coughing fit* shields... well, no, they would be impractical since you cant bash worth a bit with them

[PlainTextMan]

or *coughing fit* shields... well, no, they would be impractical since you cant bash worth a bit with them

Meh, I'd say that's kind of moot since you probably already have dwarves that are good at their weapons and don't really need the bonus of bashing a bit once you actually obtain proper *coughing fit*.

Besides that, I'm also quite curious as to what is in a shield. The simple dynamic of weight proportionate to bashing damage makes sense. But do shields definitely act the same way as armor when it comes to stopping power, and does the item quality play a role? Any more gurus to enlighten a bit?

[Sphalerite]

I was under the impression that the material involved in a shield is irrelevant, since shields (when they work) block attacks entirely rather than reducing damage in the same way armor does.  So the only thing material effects is damage when the shield is used as a weapon.  I'm not completely certain of this though.

[MonkeyHead]

AFAIK, the material is totally irrelevant in regard to the blocking ability of a shield. I have seen wood and leather ones do as good a job as steel or copper ones in that regard. The only reason I tend to use copper ones is for the odd bash attack enhancement. Of course, they are heavy and slow down a weaker dwarf, so for mobile marksdwarves go for lighter materials maybe.

[khearn]

My understanding is also that the only effect from a shield's material is the bashing attack, for which heavier is better. But the only time I ever recall seeing a dwarf do a shield bash is when his weapon arm/hand has been disabled so it's the only weapon he has. Since this is fairly rare (and the dwarf is probably going to die anyways at that point), I prefer going with wood shields because they weigh less and presumably cause less encumbrance.

But all of the above is just based on "common knowledge" picked up from the wiki and the forums, so it may well be 100% wrong. I've never seen evidence that any actual testing has been done.

[Grumbledwarfskin]

My melee dwarves definitely throw in the odd shield bash when fighting, the same as they'll throw in punches and kicks.

Dwarves do definitely seem to gain misc. object skill much slower than kicking/striking, though...I'm not sure whether that's because they use shield bashes less often than punches/kicks, or whether fighting with improvised weapons isn't something that dwarves teach each other or perhaps something they don't practice while sparring.

[Loud Whispers]

There was a test some time ago, a Dwarf with a wooden shield didn't fair any better or worse than one with a steel shield against a dragon.
(Of course this will change in an update, in a land far far away...)

[Dewar]

I wonder how a dwarf carrying two silver shields would do in combat.

[Sutremaine]

In arena mode, a full set of copper armour on an unskilled peasant slows the dwarf down from 952 speed to 936 speed. I expect the same sort of speed reduction in fortress mode and have yet to see dwarves with no armour skill slowing to a crawl after putting on a full set of steel. Copper is only about 13% heavier than steel, so very few dwarves would display slowdown that's significant with copper but not with steel.

[Loud Whispers]

In arena mode, a full set of copper armour on an unskilled peasant slows the dwarf down from 952 speed to 936 speed. I expect the same sort of speed reduction in fortress mode and have yet to see dwarves with no armour skill slowing to a crawl after putting on a full set of steel. Copper is only about 13% heavier than steel, so very few dwarves would display slowdown that's significant with copper but not with steel.

I have an idea... Have your dwarves train in copper... Fight in steel

[Pain to micromanage though]

[Grumbledwarfskin]

I don't think dwarves would gain anything from wearing heavier armor while they train. They don't get any stronger by performing a hauling task, so far as I know, I'd expect that their armor is irrelevant, and what you want for dwarves to get them more military experience is for them to be sparring faster...which would mean lighter armor would be better for training...if it were even possible to train your dwarves and then switch their armor before battle (it would literally take months for them to swap out their gear).

[Loud Whispers]

I don't think dwarves would gain anything from wearing heavier armor while they train. They don't get any stronger by performing a hauling task, so far as I know, I'd expect that their armor is irrelevant, and what you want for dwarves to get them more military experience is for them to be sparring faster...which would mean lighter armor would be better for training...if it were even possible to train your dwarves and then switch their armor before battle (it would literally take months for them to swap out their gear).

More laborious tasks do increase Dwarf physical stats, though the whole heavy armour training thing is just a guess :]

[Sphalerite]

I have an idea... Have your dwarves train in copper... Fight in steel

Not dwarfy enough.  Train all your dwarves with some level of armorsmithing.  Surround the metalsmithing workshops with lead bars.  When the inevitable strange moods occur, you'll get lead armor.  Train in that.