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[Doppel]

Hi. It's been awhile since i played Dwarf Fortress. I recently got back into it.

Problem is, digging up stairs seems to not function properly.
When i dig a room with up stairs beneath a room where up stairs had been dug before, then the up stairs of the room ontop become up/down stairs.
So, to visualize it:

When Z level 1 is

Code: [Select]

<<<
<x<
<<<
and Z level 0 is been designated to be dug as

Code: [Select]

<<<
<x<
<<<
Then Z level 1 will change into

Code: [Select]

xxx
xxx
xxxwhich is crap ofcourse (since you loose the natural floor after removing the up stairs).

Why is this a problem (instead of just not designating up stairs to be dug where up stairs are not needed) you might ask. Well, early on i designate rooms to be dug with up stairs for the extra xp my miner receives when removing the up stairs.
My question is whether this is intentional and if so for what reason. I ask because strangely enough i've seen nobody mention it, not as a bug nor in general, and i don't want to post a "bug" which is a "feature" instead.

Edit: rectifying a mistake i made.

[melphel]

I can't recreate what you are describing, what version are you playing?  When are the stairs becoming up-down, are they being dug that way, or do they change after you do something else?

Do you perhaps mean an up-down stairs turning into down stairs when you remove them?  That is the only time a stair should change like that.

[Doppel]

I'm using the latest version (lazynewbpack one).

Try to dig the example i used in the first post. But first dig level 0 before you dig level 1. I hope it's not just me.

And no, i mean up stairs (on level 1) will be dug as up/down stairs when directly beneath them (on level 0) are up stairs.

[Doppel]

Double post as i made a mistake.

I'm sorry but, weirdly enough it's the other way around. First dig out level 1, then when digging level 0 the ALREADY DUG up stairs magically become up/down stairs.
This makes even less sense.
I made some pics to clarify.

Z level 1:

Z level 0:


Now let's see what happens when we continue digging.

Z level 1:

Z level 0:

[NecroRebel]

I've seen it before. I assume it was intended; it's kind of a strange thing to happen unintentionally, after all. Also, if you designate an up stair to be dug into a down stair, it instead turns into an up/down stair. It's not really that strange, though... You've got a staircase, and you're telling your people to make more stairs beneath it that lead upwards. Why doesn't it make sense for them to just extend the existing staircase instead of having stairs that go up into a floor below more stairs? You're doing wonky things, but the game's treatment of what you're doing would be completely logical.

[Grumbledwarfskin]

I agree, it must be deliberate to help out people who screw up their stair designations. After all, it makes no sense to dig out up stairs if they aren't going to connect to anything.

If you called a carpenter and asked them to install a set of up-stairs, they'd cut a hole in the floor at the top of them for you to get through as well. (I don't think dwarves usually do, but it strikes me as more of an annoyance.)

While it doesn't seem like a huge exploit, doubling the exp your miners get by mining out stairs and removing them is definitely not a deliberate feature.

[Doppel]

I agree that maybe i'm doing wonky things, however it isn't exactly right to say this is (supposed to be) "intentional" as first digging the lower level will not magically make the upper level create up/down stairs when digging up stairs. So then, why would the order make a difference?  Also, this is the first time i actually encountered this problem, so it's got to be something new(er). I think it's more of a unintentional bug that happens to somewhat make sense.

[NecroRebel]

It isn't particularly new; the case where I remember noticing it was at least a year ago, and I believe that it was probably done in 40d, so closer to 2 years ago. Besides that, your objection is somewhat disingenuous. If you're digging out the whole staircase at the same time, you wouldn't designate up stairs below up stairs unless you wanted up stairs below up stairs, but if the top stairs already existed, the logical reason for making up stairs below them would be to extend the staircase.

[Doppel]

I'm not "objecting it", i'm simply pointing out a discrepancy i wasn't aware of (neither ever encountered a year and more ago). Nomatter whether the logic is that up stairs become up down stairs when there are up stairs beneath it, then the "bug" lies in the fact that they do not if first digging the up stairs beneath it.
Further following that logic another "bug" (or missing feature) would then be that digging up stairs does not reveal the tile above it in the same way digging down stairs reveals the tile beneath it.
I'd actually prefer it that way really, i just wish i knew about it earlier.

[Dwarf]

Doppel making a double post?

Sorry if I found that funny

[melphel]

Oh, I see now.  This is just me talking, but I think that would be intentional behavior.  If you had a staircase shaft and suddenly wished to extend it downwards, it will turn the up stairs at the very bottom into up-down to connect it to the new part of the shaft.  This also works if you built up-downs below the up stairs as well.  Since you can't designate an up-down stair on an existing up stair, this allows you to continue your stairways building a constructed up-down in the place of the up stair.

If you are extending the staircase upwards, you can already just dig the extending stairs into the above level from the top of the stairs.  So if you designated up stairs there, it can be taken for granted that you wanted up stairs in particular, and not down or up-down to extend the staircase shaft.  Or at least I think that is why the order you make the stairs matters.

I also found that building constructions on top of stairs will effectively remove the stairs, leaving the appropriate floor if the construction is removed.  In which case, up-down stairs have an implied down stair when they get removed.

Interestingly enough, it is possible to move down through the natural floors without piercing them.  Constructed down and up-down stairs permit access to the level below them, even if they are built on solid floor.  You can't reveal what is below in this manner, but if you later remove the construction, the natural floor beneath them remains intact (potentially sealing off anyone below).  Which kind of makes me wonder if falling dwarves could be stopped by the floors between constructed stairs, eliminating the need for hatches?