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[Squirrelloid]

My 'warm' *ocean* is frozen.  *Frozen*.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?  (Knowing my dwarves, more Whiskey than anything else)

[The Merchant Of Menace]

So.
It getting cold enough to freeze the water == Temperature not working?

I'd say that's a pretty stellar example of temperature working fine. It'll probably thaw in summer.

[G-Flex]

So.
It getting cold enough to freeze the water == Temperature not working?

I'd say that's a pretty stellar example of temperature working fine. It'll probably thaw in summer.

Read the OP again. His local climate is "warm". An area should have to be pretty cold in winter for ocean to freeze.


Squirrelloid: Are you sure the ocean itself was "warm" and not just the land biome?

[Squirrelloid]

The Ocean is warm.  All 3 Ocean biomes are warm (only one of them freezes...).  The Land biome is temperate.  (That was the first thing i checked when i decided i could not keep playing a fort that froze DF 4x every winter with 2 stages of freezing and unfreezing an Ocean each).

(Edit: whoops, Land actually temperate - shouldn't affect the Ocean biome performance though.  And this may be a DF 'feature', but even temperate oceans shouldn't freeze...).

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Huh, I assumed this was intentional. How long does the freeze last for? Because according to the Wiki, warm biomes can freeze for a few days, so unless it's staying frozen for months, I'd say it's normal.

[Squirrelloid]

Huh, I assumed this was intentional. How long does the freeze last for? Because according to the Wiki, warm biomes can freeze for a few days, so unless it's staying frozen for months, I'd say it's normal.

It freezes for about two months, to varying degrees of frozen, from the middle of the first month of winter to the middle of the last month of winter.

And while I'd be ok with fresh water freezing for a few days in a 'warm' biome, Oceans shouldn't freeze unless its Freezing or on the cold end of Cold.  Its not like Long Island Sound freezes solid in the winter, and that's Temperate.  To get ocean water freezing you need to cross north of the arctic circle basically (or south of the antarctic circle).

[Monkeyfacedprickleback]

The temperature in Df is a little buggy I've found. i've been in cold biomes and had unmelted water all year. I wouldn't worry to much. I figure it's just the games way of making sure you have that little extra bit of ‼FUN‼

[Squirrelloid]

The temperature in Df is a little buggy I've found. i've been in cold biomes and had unmelted water all year. I wouldn't worry to much. I figure it's just the games way of making sure you have that little extra bit of ‼FUN‼

I prefer my !!fun!! when i don't need to worry about whether my processor will let the game continue or not.  I embarked with warm oceans specifically to avoid nonsense like that.  I can handle fluid flow, but mass instantaneous freezing is a bit much.

[G-Flex]

Temperature has been bugged since 0.31.1 came out, I think. Remember when dwarves used to melt when it rained (some of the causes of this were never fixed despite me making a bug report for it a long while ago)? Toady's bugfixing method seems to mostly be "poke at it until it looks like it's working", so I doubt there's much in the way of proof that the temperature descriptions are currently very useful or correct.

[gildarumarth]

Biomes are sometimes colder or warmer than their description in embark map window. Couple of times I embarked in warm area, only to find it was actually temperate and all the water is frozen.

[melphel]

And while I'd be ok with fresh water freezing for a few days in a 'warm' biome, Oceans shouldn't freeze unless its Freezing or on the cold end of Cold.  Its not like Long Island Sound freezes solid in the winter, and that's Temperate.  To get ocean water freezing you need to cross north of the arctic circle basically (or south of the antarctic circle).

I think you are applying a little too much real world logic to this game.  In DF, if it is cold enough to freeze a murky pool or stream, it is cold enough to freeze an entire lake or ocean.

[Miuramir]

Do note that realistic "warm" biomes do have occasional freezes; every few years the orange crops in Florida are badly damaged by a hard freeze, for instance (the record low for Orlando, FL is 19 F (-7 C)).   Some DF players seem to expect that the temperature ranges will be a lot narrower than is the case in much of the real world; for instance, my town, with authoritative records only since 1952, has in only those 60 years had a historic high of 99 F (37 C) and a historic low of -18 F (-28 C); this while being a hair on the cool side of "temperate" (officially just barely "mountain temperate", with an overall year-round meta-average of about 51 F (11 C)).  Interior locations on large land masses can have much wider temperature swings than that. 

The real problem however is that while DF has temperature, what it models far more poorly is thermal inertia and specific heat.  As I understand it, in DF, if something drops below its freezing point or above its melting or boiling point, it freezes, melts, or vaporizes as appropriate pretty much on the spot; with no consideration of the energy required or released.  Additionally, there isn't yet a system for handling multiple levels of frozen.  Even given the current limitations, we could hypothetically have "thin ice" handled as a contaminant ("... a bucket of water laced with thin ice"), and "thick ice" handled as a brook tile, which can be both walked on and used for water, before hitting the current "solid ice" which is a full square.  Eventually, when we get mixed liquid handling, perhaps we could have freezing 1/7 at a time, with results like a cube with 5/7 water and 2/7 ice.  (Perhaps every day with average temperatures below freezing has a 1-in-N chance of increasing the ice of fresh water by 1/7, and a much smaller chance for salt water.)

[G-Flex]

Do note that realistic "warm" biomes do have occasional freezes; every few years the orange crops in Florida are badly damaged by a hard freeze, for instance (the record low for Orlando, FL is 19 F (-7 C)).

Sure, but I think the problem here isn't a bit of frost or even a decent freeze, it's the ocean freezing. Slightly more difficult!

[krisslanza]

Do note that realistic "warm" biomes do have occasional freezes; every few years the orange crops in Florida are badly damaged by a hard freeze, for instance (the record low for Orlando, FL is 19 F (-7 C)).

Sure, but I think the problem here isn't a bit of frost or even a decent freeze, it's the ocean freezing. Slightly more difficult!

DF doesn't know the difference between an ocean water tile, or a murky pool tile. It's just all water.

[G-Flex]

I'm aware of that; that doesn't make it a good thing.