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Author Topic: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?  (Read 1939 times)

MorleyDev

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2011, 02:30:11 am »

Well no, assuming "sanity" is judged here by "a lack of serious personality disorders" (and really, who amongst us can ever be called completely sane?).

As for psychopaths, well there are often considered by the psychologists who still use the term (and especially those that think it separate but related to Anti-Social Personality Disorder) to be two types: Those that blend in with society and those that don't. The latter often wind up in jail, the former in business. Anti-Social Personality Disorder is not (as far as I know) considered a valid legal defence since it doesn't strip you of your decision making skills at all.

Whilst a person with schizophrenia can be stripped of all or most of their rationality, a person with ASPD often displays significant rationality, at times displaying more rationality than a "normal" person (most likely due to the shallowness of their emotions, aside from short-lived rage they don't feel as deeply as most people so can keep their heads easier (for better or worse). It's been noted that those with ASPD are rarely affected by social panic). They have poor impulse control due to craving stimulation (which makes sense when you realise the stimulation is often all they have), but they typically are aware of the consequences of their actions just apathetic towards the effects they have on everybody else and egotistical enough to believe they can avoid suffering consequences to themselves. We all have moments of complete unempathetic selfishness like this, ASPD can be described as being locked into that for most of your life.

A psychopath can still be happy, sad, etc etc, they just don't feel those things about other people. They can also still logically come to the conclusion that needlessly harming people = bad, they just don't get the negative emotion from harming others.

Actually "shallow emotions" is one of the criteria for ASPD. Some clinicians have described them as mere primitive responses to immediate needs instead of the "deep" emotions of the mythological 'normal' person.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 03:07:22 am by MorleyDev »
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Vattic

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2011, 03:05:40 am »

I have family who suffer from that disorder, I can personally account (of course this isn't scientific, this is one person's view of one other person) that a non-medicated paranoid schizophrenic probably couldn't pull off an organized, complex attack of any kind.  Said family member is more likely to stare into space for hours at a time, sleep at odd hours, or throw a tantrum about how we don't believe his crazy delusions.  He used to be violent before we got him medicated, but even then the worst he did was throw things, punch, scratch, or bite.  Sure if he had access to a weapon he MIGHT have used one, but only in a random sort of way.
I too have a family member with the same disorder and know a couple more. For the most part I'd agree that long term complex plans aren't something I'd bet on. Then again the people I know are considered especially severe so perhaps someone less severe or with a different mix of the possible symptoms might be capable of much more; Paranoid Schizophrenia and Schizophrenia in general are loosely defined after all.
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DrPoo

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2011, 11:14:32 am »

Terrorism is a war strategy, actually the reason why i worship God and not Odin today was because the vikings feared to get invaded by christains.

Terror is just a really colourful word for fear
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Criptfeind

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2011, 12:06:04 pm »

You worship God and not Odin because of Olaf Tryggvason.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2011, 12:13:36 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Levi

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 12:55:49 pm »

Joker attempts to poison the Gotham water supply and never gets called a terrorist.  So by comic books standards apparently yes you need to be sane to be a terrorist.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 01:09:02 pm »

I can't tell if you intentionally conflated two movies or not.



Anywho it DID strike me as odd that the league of shadows was never called a terrorist organization. Methinks they actively avoided the word.
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RedKing

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2011, 01:53:07 pm »

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Obviously, Odin is much better at delivering on his promises.
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Kogan Loloklam

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2011, 02:23:04 pm »

Oh, okay. I guess I learned something today

That still doesn't mean I want to be in the same room as one
You probably have been in rooms with them.
People can make a rational decision to act a certain way without any emotion involved and continue to act in that way and even mimic the emotions required. Without feeling them.

So yea. You probably have been in a room with someone like that at some point in your life.


I have family who suffer from that disorder, I can personally account (of course this isn't scientific, this is one person's view of one other person) that a non-medicated paranoid schizophrenic probably couldn't pull off an organized, complex attack of any kind.  Said family member is more likely to stare into space for hours at a time, sleep at odd hours, or throw a tantrum about how we don't believe his crazy delusions.  He used to be violent before we got him medicated, but even then the worst he did was throw things, punch, scratch, or bite.  Sure if he had access to a weapon he MIGHT have used one, but only in a random sort of way.
I've been around several different degrees of people like this. Some are exactly how you'd describe. It's hard to think how they successfully plan their way out of their room with how off the handle they go and irrational they get. Some though can be frighteningly effective, and backed up with the same irrationality. They can take the same mechanism I described above in faking it, but use it for real deception. You won't even know what they are planning until their plan executes and you find a literal ton of concrete has been poured into your sewer drain to "get the spies", from their hidden stash of concrete mix they have been carefully and secretly stockpiling over the past few months. Or you get unlucky and instead of a huge repair bill it's violent.

Terrorism doesn't require sanity. It does require the individual to understand his actions will inspire fear, and the deliberate decision to execute those actions because of that fear.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 03:45:29 pm »

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Obviously, Odin is much better at delivering on his promises.
Obviously, Odin posthumously triggered the industrial revolution, causing global warming which killed the last of the ice giants. Just as planned.
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Dsarker

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 04:00:24 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Obviously, Odin is much better at delivering on his promises.
Obviously, Odin posthumously triggered the industrial revolution, causing global warming which killed the last of the ice giants. Just as planned.

So why the picture of Thor?
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DrPoo

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 05:28:49 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Obviously, Odin is much better at delivering on his promises.
Obviously, Odin posthumously triggered the industrial revolution, causing global warming which killed the last of the ice giants. Just as planned.

So why the picture of Thor?

BECAUSE AMERICAN PEOPLE ALWAYS MISCONCEPTS VIKINGS!!!1!!! /rage
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Dsarker

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 05:39:21 pm »

Vikings have the best mythology. Manliest use for rainbows ever.
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
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inteuniso

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2011, 06:59:21 pm »

Also drinking blood from the skulls of your enemies.

Old Testament has the best stories though, including an assassin that killed a fat man by stabbing him in the stomach, causing the fat man to shit himself.
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Dsarker

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Re: Do you need to be sane to conduct terrorism?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 07:02:02 pm »

Nono, you're forgetting the best bit.

This man that was killed was a king, right? And the assassin came to see him in his throne room.


Which was also his toilet. He was so fat he couldn't be bothered to get up from the toilet.

And the even better bit. He was so fat that the assassin stuck his sword in, but he couldn't pull it out because the fat rolled over it and covered it.
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Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."
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