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[Loud Whispers]

Really? I've always viewed dwarves either as:

*Great heroes who perform superdwarven feats;
*Bumbling idiots who are nought but pawns for my evil schemes.

Relate to dwarves? HA! You do know the mortality rates dwarves suffer... Right?

[SirHoneyBadger]

I'm not sure what high mortality rates have to do with it, other than maybe enhance the attachment to a dwarf you've had around for a long time.

I know I don't connect too deeply to most migrants, on any level above annoyance at having to manage the mangy vagrants, but when a member of my original 7 lives for 30 years or more, has mined out half the Fortress, personally, and starts being able to fend off seiges and cyclopes by herself, her life and personality starts to mean a little to me.

Such a dwarf will start having an effect on how I play the game, which is pretty interesting. Each being in the game is unique, and potentially really interesting. That's one of the major, major things that Dwarf Fortress does better than any other game out there.

[Loud Whispers]

I'm not sure what high mortality rates have to do with it, other than maybe enhance the attachment to a dwarf you've had around for a long time.

I know I don't connect too deeply to most migrants, on any level above annoyance at having to manage the mangy vagrants, but when a member of my original 7 lives for 30 years or more, has mined out half the Fortress, personally, and starts being able to fend off seiges and cyclopes by herself, her life and personality starts to mean a little to me.

Such a dwarf will start having an effect on how I play the game, which is pretty interesting. Each being in the game is unique, and potentially really interesting. That's one of the major, major things that Dwarf Fortress does better than any other game out there.

Player caused deaths.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I'm not sure what high mortality rates have to do with it, other than maybe enhance the attachment to a dwarf you've had around for a long time.

I know I don't connect too deeply to most migrants, on any level above annoyance at having to manage the mangy vagrants, but when a member of my original 7 lives for 30 years or more, has mined out half the Fortress, personally, and starts being able to fend off seiges and cyclopes by herself, her life and personality starts to mean a little to me.

Such a dwarf will start having an effect on how I play the game, which is pretty interesting. Each being in the game is unique, and potentially really interesting. That's one of the major, major things that Dwarf Fortress does better than any other game out there.

Player caused deaths.

Yes, and?

[antymattar]

You should note that the game is also meant to pool in nooblets too. Some people might just want to play a hard game.

[SirHoneyBadger]

You should note that the game is also meant to pool in nooblets too. Some people might just want to play a hard game.

What's that got to do with what I'm suggesting? A skilled badgerman knight in full plate, wielding a couple of masterwork steel battleaxes, is going to be harder than a similar human, on a genetic level. And with more diversity of civilizations, there are more opportunities to make enemies. 

And, in any case, I'm just talking about modding this in. The vanilla game can still have humans and whatever. I just don't personally think they are a vital aspect of fantasy, or that they add much of anything that can't be added more creatively, via other means.

Since the thread is about considering race's roles, I just don't think that humans fill a necessary role in a fantasy work of this nature.

[Loud Whispers]

You should note that the game is also meant to pool in nooblets too. Some people might just want to play a hard game.

What's that got to do with what I'm suggesting? A skilled badgerman knight in full plate, wielding a couple of battleaxes, is going to be harder than a similar human.

vs a human equally as armed an armoured, I'd bet the human would win more often, due to superior training. The only thing badgers and their kin have is rage, which as powerful as it is, is not invulnerable to a battle axe to the face.

[SirHoneyBadger]

vs a human equally as armed an armoured, I'd bet the human would win more often, due to superior training. The only thing badgers and their kin have is rage, which as powerful as it is, is not invulnerable to a battle axe to the face.

The human doesn't have superior training. Where are you getting that?

[Loud Whispers]

They will gen with combat skills, and they learn much better than badger people do

[SirHoneyBadger]

They will gen with combat skills, and they learn much better than badger people do

Only until you mod them. Which was the whole point and overall subject of the conversation... 

[Loud Whispers]

They will gen with combat skills, and they learn much better than badger people do

Only until you mod them. Which was the whole point and overall subject of the conversation... 

Oops. (I must've missed something somewhere :d)

[GreatWyrmGold]

vs a human equally as armed an armoured, I'd bet the human would win more often, due to superior training. The only thing badgers and their kin have is rage, which as powerful as it is, is not invulnerable to a battle axe to the face.

The human doesn't have superior training. Where are you getting that?

Animalmen as they are now are around the nomad/tribal stage (at best), meaning they don't have the food production needed to have full-time warriors. Of course, your vision involves steel battleaxes (which kinda infringes on dwarves' territory, but whatever), which would imply a higher level of organization.

[Loud Whispers]

vs a human equally as armed an armoured, I'd bet the human would win more often, due to superior training. The only thing badgers and their kin have is rage, which as powerful as it is, is not invulnerable to a battle axe to the face.

The human doesn't have superior training. Where are you getting that?

Animalmen as they are now are around the nomad/tribal stage (at best), meaning they don't have the food production needed to have full-time warriors. Of course, your vision involves steel battleaxes (which kinda infringes on dwarves' territory, but whatever), which would imply a higher level of organization.

Putting civilisation in animal men civ I guess.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Now you're getting the idea. 

[antymattar]

Ah, but humans have this crappy ad company  stuff going on there.