Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[stabbymcstabstab]

Get as many ships possiable to lunga and get any ships with weapons in a days reach of the oilers go escort them to the carriers.

[Erkki]

I see you're playing with the roads forced on. The toggle button is r on the keyboard if you were wondering... I also like to play without the hex-grid. Whenever I need to calculate distances I hit F6 and also get hexside information telling me where the rivers, islands etc. are so that I dont have to guess from graphics.  Also y = railroads.

Do you know what you're up against? Guadalcanal is after Coral Sea and Midway, so out of the Big Six 4 (Akagi, Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu) are down. Without knowing the scenario, you are potentially facing Shokaku, Zuikaku, Ryujo, Shoho and Zuiho, 72+72+48+30+30= 252 CV aircraft with 135 torpedoes(or 67 in one attack). That is a serious threat and might appear just about anywhere with no prior warning whatsoever. I see your CVs arent directly supporting the land and amphibious operations on Guadalcanal and Tulagi... 

[Anvilfolk]

Thanks Erkki - I need those tips! I just put almost everything on to figure stuff out. Hexes definitely don't look so good, but they get me a feel for the size of things for now Also, just how much better are the japanese at surface fighting? It seems to me their doctrine prepared them for it a lot better. I'm annoyed as heck about that destroyers causing this much havoc on superior forces!

My previous experiences with this scenario (one or two) were that at some point, battleship and cruiser task forces flood into the Solomon sea and down the Solomon islands. Then the carriers show up a bit behind them. I never played far enough to know whether they will land more troops at Guadalcanal - I think they might, judging from the xAK moving out of Rabaul. I'm not sure I want the carriers right at or near Guadalcanal for two reasons... first, they are sure to get spotted, so the enemy will know they're there, and second I know the Japanese are going to start sending Betties on naval attacks, and they occasionally get through and do some damage.

Furthermore, at some point the ships near Guadalcanal get hit by carrier planes. If our carrier TF is in proximity, it is bound to be spotted by enemy land-based planes and get hit by the enemy carrier attack, which can come from anywhere. If it stays further east, away from scouting range, then it can move in during the night after Guadalcanal gets hit by carrier planes. Hopefully we can catch them off-guard from the flank.



Stabby: I assume we are moving the oilers there then! I will make up whatever armoured escort I can get from Noumea then, and perhaps send down one of the TF's at Guadalcanal to give them a hand as well, since I don't think we have any cruisers at Noumea.

What about the carriers? It seems Erkki is suggesting we move them close to the landing zones, but then I give the Japanese the initiative... they'll know where our carriers are, and we won't know where theirs are. What do you all think? For now it seems like it might be safe leaving them there covering the eastern flank, but if you really think they'll be doing more in close support, let's do that instead!

[Erkki]

Thanks Erkki - I need those tips! I just put almost everything on to figure stuff out. Hexes definitely don't look so good, but they get me a feel for the size of things for now Also, just how much better are the japanese at surface fighting? It seems to me their doctrine prepared them for it a lot better. I'm annoyed as heck about that destroyers causing this much havoc on superior forces!

The DDs arent much better at all except very few... I dont think the Japanese have any Akitsukis in this scenario, though. The DDs they have are good in night battles but Allied CLs and CAs should be able to deal away with them during daytime. The only thing to fear of them are the torpedoes, which they probably can only reload at Truk(recon Rabaul and see if they have any support ships, AD, AKE etc. there).

My previous experiences with this scenario (one or two) were that at some point, battleship and cruiser task forces flood into the Solomon sea and down the Solomon islands. Then the carriers show up a bit behind them. I never played far enough to know whether they will land more troops at Guadalcanal - I think they might, judging from the xAK moving out of Rabaul. I'm not sure I want the carriers right at or near Guadalcanal for two reasons... first, they are sure to get spotted, so the enemy will know they're there, and second I know the Japanese are going to start sending Betties on naval attacks, and they occasionally get through and do some damage.

Well, you can risk G4M/G3M attacks now or later CV + LBA attacks together... If you keep your CVs further than 14 hex from fields that can operate fighters with drop tanks(size 2) those bombers cannot be escorted and will suffer heavily. Odds are for any range 10+ strike to arrive in piecemeal and be unable to penetrate the CAP any way.

Furthermore, at some point the ships near Guadalcanal get hit by carrier planes. If our carrier TF is in proximity, it is bound to be spotted by enemy land-based planes and get hit by the enemy carrier attack, which can come from anywhere. If it stays further east, away from scouting range, then it can move in during the night after Guadalcanal gets hit by carrier planes. Hopefully we can catch them off-guard from the flank.

I'm not sure how smart the AI is but the Kido Butai is 100% anti-shipping weapon - do not rely on it attacking troops or going after some transports when your own CVs and capital ships are known to be in the area. Also, theres no guarantee that it wont retreat well within the range of Rabaul's bombers and fighters immediately after it attacks or spots your CVs.

What about the carriers? It seems Erkki is suggesting we move them close to the landing zones, but then I give the Japanese the initiative... they'll know where our carriers are, and we won't know where theirs are. What do you all think? For now it seems like it might be safe leaving them there covering the eastern flank, but if you really think they'll be doing more in close support, let's do that instead!

I think you'll have to cover those transports or risk the failure of the whole operation. You dont have to keep them there for more than a day or two, just unload ships and bug out, move your combat ships back too but keep them at anchor within strike range(max 7 or 8 hex from Guadalcanal or within 320nm so they can close in overnight, using full speed). Make sure those surface action units are refueled too or they might need to stop to level fuel tanks within the TF at the worst possible moment...

[stabbymcstabstab]

Yes we don't want a "Hello mister Dive Bomber don't mind me just Going to fuel up Here." Moment.

[inteuniso]

I just acquired War in the Pacific, so I would love to play a game with you.

[Anvilfolk]

August 12, 1942

The carriers are sent closer to the invasion. We continue spotting relatively large enemy task forces to the north-east and south-east of the carriers' position. Torpedo squadrons are set on 50% search to cover a large area to the east, to make sure we see them before they're coming. The oilers are ordered to set out during the night to meet our task forces. They are escorted by around half-a-dozen destroyers, plus a few lesser DM's.

THe B-17 squadrons are still resting away in sunny Australia. The amphibious transports used for the invasion steam full-speed towards Luganville to evade the enemy raiding destroyers and start loading two USN support units (including aviation and naval support).

The lack of supply of the attackers on Tulagi is starting to make itself felt. 303 enemy casualties are reported to 58 of ours. Fortifications are, however, reduced to 0. Shouldn't be long now! We can hold on there!

Further during the day, we lose sight of the previous sightings to the east.

Due to an error in communication it turns out the oiler task force did not leave port today. At least it has some more oil in it!

The wounded transport arrives at Guadalcanal and starts unloading supplies. The marines throw a party, and all the booze is gone by noon!

August 13, 1943

DISASTER STRIKES

During the night, a japanese task force containing one cruiser, one light cruiser and one destroyer closes in on Lunga. The result is a devastating torpedo strike, followed by a slug match - the CA Chicago reports heavy fires, CAs Australia and Canberra sink before dawn, CL Hobart too. Out of the destroyers, two get hit by shells, one reporting heavy fires. The damage our forces do? The CA Chokai gets 11 shell hits and is seen on fire, DD Yuzuki is also hit 4 times and is on fire, while CL Yubari escapes unharmed.

The tattered remains of our once great combat fleet retire to Noumea, but are intercepted during the morning by the same enemy task force. CA Chokai is hit by another 4 shells, but apparently put out her fires. Yubari once again escapes harm, but Yuzuki gets another pounding and is reported under heavy fire and with heavy damage. In return, our DD Selfridge suffers another 14 hits, and is probably sinking soon after...

Marines on Tulagi report more violent combat, but disruption, lack of supplies and fatigue are becoming real problems. The japanese are holding up, but still taking much more losses than we are!

During the day, many of the scout planes report sighting and attacking CA Chokai and CL Yubari, with plenty of hits to boot. If you ask me, I'll never believe these damned scout pilots. Nobody to see their misses, they might as well report a hit!




*** STAFF MEETING ***


We just tragically lost a significant portion of our surface combat capabilities. The carriers are closer to the islands, although the enemies came in from the Solomon Sea, presumably during the night  at full speed. Our air power can do little against night attacks... how a vastly superior task force gets decimated like that, I can't understand... it sure as heck is a dent in our capabilities though!

The situation and temporary orders are as follows:



Essentially, we continue loading support troops at Luganville. The damaged supply transport should stop unloading at Guadalcanal, that has plenty supplies, and will transport them to Tulagi, where the Marines really need them.

The enemy strike force appears to be retreating, so we move in both carriers and surface fleet. We can't let those bastards get away! They must be low on torpedoes!

The oilers move out and go around the islands to avoid raiders. They are escorted by more than a dozen DD's and DM's.


I had to take manual control of subs, they appear to just want to go back home to Noumea under computer control. I've checked and they have both torpedoes and fuel! Why do they do this?


We really need to figure out what to do. The force that was decimated was one of two strong surface combat forces. We are now down to one "strong one", plus one with only a pair of AA cruisers and a destroyer. We can get all non-damaged DD's to this TF, and we would continue with 2 "strong" surface combat forces.

And the carriers? Where do we put them? Keep'em close? Move'em out further into the Solomon sea? Loads of surface TF's appear to be out there...

Let me know! Possible suggestions are in the map above!



Let's turn the tables!

[Anvilfolk]

Oh, and I forgot, inteuniso: as you can see, I fail utterly at this I want to finish one of these longer campaigns before PBEM against actual people, but I'd be up for it after this!

[Erkki]

Night of the Long Lances.  CL Yubari has a firepower of a DD and no torpedoes, but I think you were just demonstrated how good the Japanese CAs are especially in night combat. 

How many penetrating hits on Chokai, belt, tower, deck?

Subs will head home before they run out of fuel ie. the endurance is still green or orange(=enough to reach home, just). But if you change the home port to a further away base you will notice they wont have fuel to make it there.

I dont know what ships you have but if you plan for night combat, dont put more than 6 or 7 ships per TF. And make them destroyer heavy. Also best to have fast ships in one TF and slow ones in another for max combat and moving efficiency.

What do your CVBG TFs look like?

[Anvilfolk]

I don't recall seeing that much details about the information against the Chokai. I think I just get a report with the number of bomb hits and torpedo hits. Is it in the detailed battle logs?

As for the subs, I think they had more than 80/90% fuel. Didn't look like it would be a problem at all!

For task forces, should I have ANY escorts in the actual oiler TF, or have them all in a separate Escort TF? Right now they're divided. Maybe 5 with the oilers, and the escortTF with around 10 ships set to follow them. Does that sound about right?

There are three carrier task forces, operating together. They have one carrier a piece, one of them has a BB, then a couple of CA's and 3 or 4 DD's. How does that sound?


I am still awaiting input from all you generals and admirals Does the above plan sound OK?

[Erkki]

I don't recall seeing that much details about the information against the Chokai. I think I just get a report with the number of bomb hits and torpedo hits. Is it in the detailed battle logs?

The detailed stuff is in the combat animation(not sure if you can re-replay it in single player but in PBEM its possible), but beware that both CombatReport and the animation include FOW. Worst example I have seen was in my previous PBEM where in a CV battle animation reported Hiryu hit by a bomb and Ryujo by a torpedo with massive fuel explosion and listing, then animation later showed Kaga burning... And combat replay said it was Kaga hit and burning. In reality, the hit ship was Akagi and the damage was only minor and even Ryujo only received 35-50-10 or so damage and 10-ish fires and would survive, with repair ships and heavy escorts, to Kobe's drydock 2 months later.

As for the subs, I think they had more than 80/90% fuel. Didn't look like it would be a problem at all!

Yeah well the AI does that. Once they leave for their second patrol they're likely to work fine though.

For task forces, should I have ANY escorts in the actual oiler TF, or have them all in a separate Escort TF? Right now they're divided. Maybe 5 with the oilers, and the escortTF with around 10 ships set to follow them. Does that sound about right?

If you have the escorts following the oilers... Not good. Subs are likely to see the oilers before the escorts and engage unharassed. If you want to escort anything, you need the escorts in the TF itself and if theres a separate escort TF, you need it to sweep ahead(set both TFs to mission speed or sweepers to mission speed and oilers to cruise, the first one will slow down for the slower to catch up and the slower one will speed up(if mission speed)).

There are three carrier task forces, operating together. They have one carrier a piece, one of them has a BB, then a couple of CA's and 3 or 4 DD's. How does that sound?

4 DD(or other ASW capable ship) per TF and per escorted capital ship is pretty much the minimum... Your assets are limited so you'll have to do with what you have. You'll have to decide between protection against submarines, DD/CL/CA night raiders and air raids and having air attack coordination. A sub WILL slip through screen of just 4 DDs at the worst possible moment and the slowness of the BB(which one is it, and its cruise speed?) will make attacks more likely. They'll also project more AAA and the BB will be able to "protect" all CVs instead of just 1. After an attack(sub or surface) they're also less likely to be spread out over multiple hexes where they might be just in our out of strike range, facing change to be defeated in piecemeal. On the other hand, having them in separate TFs makes the force more flexible and increases the change of air raids launching and arriving coordinated. Decisions, decisions! 

Your plan sounds right btw. 

[Anvilfolk]

Damn it! Forgot to save Now we won't have as much FUN...

August 12, 1942

After the singularity transported the world two days back in time, the enemy raiders that we saw in the future decided to engage the remaining boats of the supply transports and sink them outright. DD Warramunga and xAP Manunda are sunk...

They subsequently engage the fleet they had engaged in the future, with a mightily different outcome this time. Alerted by future experience, the japanese ships fail to catch the americans unaware. Our CA's take several shell hits, and CA Australia is set on fire, but all in all things look manageable. CA Chokai gets hit by 3 shell hits and one torpedo, and DD Yuzuki is hit by 4 shells. They both burn brightly in the night. CL Yubari, as usual, escapes unhurt.

But we will avenge our future history! The task force sorties and finds CL Yubari alone. He is not escaping intact this time! He gets hit  by 20 shells, and is reportedly very damaged. In return, a lucky hit on DD Selfridge sets it on fire under heavy damage.

Yubari tried to retreat through Tulagi. Bad choice! CLAA San Juan and DD's Monssen and Buchanan put broadsides into it, for another 20 shell hits, one torpedo hit, and... Yubari goes under the waves.

The surface TF that was attacked heads for Noumea at full speed, except for DD Selfridge, CA Australia and a couple more DD's that return to Luganville, where they will undergo repairs. They are more damaged than I thought they were. Selfridge can only make... 1 knot!

Troops still loading at Luganville - the remaining amphibious TF goes to Noumea for supplies.

The carriers move closer... perhaps too close? As usual, those scout pilots report several hits on the Chokai, but don't you believe it!

August 14, 1943

Tulagi is finally ours! Other than that, it is a quiet day. Supply, replenishment and damaged TF's continue heading for their destinations. DD Selfridge is going to have to make it on its own, so that the other ships can undergo repairs ASAP.

20 ships are spotted at Rabaul. How about a raid of B-17's?

One of our scouts spots 5 enemy ships supposedly at Lunga. Neither the surface task force nor the carriers engage. Are we all on vacations?

Morale of the B-17 pilots is getting higher, but maybe a couple more days will do'em good!

*** STAFF MEETING ***

This is the situation after the time warp:




What does everyone think of this plan? I'm afraid our carriers will be victims of enemy surface action. I also don't want to move any planes to Guadalcanal until the support units get there. I'm now putting all TF's that have enough fuel at Full Speed instead of Mission Speed.

I think once the oilers refuel the carrier task force, I will probably transfer over two or three extra destroyers to each TF. Should help the AAA!

Any ideas on what to do now? The only big thing we've got going right now is trying to get support units to Guadalcanal. After that, we're letting the Japanese take the initiative, which is something I don't quite like...




I usually skip combat animations. They take too long, and right now the screen is too high for my resolution. It's nice for the screenshots, but hard to see the messages at the bottom. I've also manually set some subs near the combat zone, put up an ASW patrol around Noumea, and added the destroyers to the oiler TF instead of having them as escort.

I think the BB is the North Carolina. The thing is - it's just about as fast as the Wasp. If I want to keep the TF's together as a group, then I'm always limited by Wasp. The difference between it and the BB is 1 or 2 knots, I think.

Thanks for all the help

[stabbymcstabstab]

Sure you "forgot" to save but any way If you find a enemy taskforce just have the subs follow them they need to refuel right  just wait for them to get when they are less prepared and go the non carrier task force with the B-17 when they are closer to our ships so they can finish them off.

[Anvilfolk]

I actually did forget... I've resorted to writing the post out as stuff is happening so I don't forget it, and then between checking all the details for the final discussion and fleshing out the post I just closed the game. Didn't even cross my mind

Also - can you actually give follow orders targetting enemy task forces? That's awesome! Also, you're saying I should use the surface combat forces and B-17s when they are least expecting it? I've tried using B-17's for naval attacks, but much like the original thing, if the ships are even remotely manoeuvrable, they just escape the falling bombs.

[Fishbreath]

I keep a notebook for my LPs that I can set down next to my computer. Then I find out my notes aren't detailed enough and make up a bunch of stuff anyway.