Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...  (Read 1856 times)

Pickerel

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« on: November 22, 2011, 06:06:36 pm »

There are many cases where you want to trap your dwarf alone behind a wall.  The site is fraught with stories of the one or more (or sometimes fewer, depending on the medical state of the one dwarf) manages to wall himself up while his comrades are slaughtered to the dwarf, and subsists on vermin until migrants come.  I've done it myself. 
Usually, however, it's just that moment when you find out that one of more of your legendary dwarves just died of starvation after sitting behind a wall they had constructed in their way, but had not told you the player.

I think there may be a basic way to get around that: path endpoints which the player can set.  Points on the map that, whenever a dwarf is building something that could block their movement, check to make sure that once the object is built they will be able to get to the nearest endpoint.  They will build so that this is the case, choosing the side that will keep them in access, once the thing is built, to this set point.  So that wall?  They won't automatically stand north of it, if that would wall them in WITH the forgotten beast, but would instead stand south of it so as to ensure that they are safely on the opposite side from said beast, because the player set the endpoint to be inside the fort.  If more than 1 endpoint is set, they would use the nearest, of course, OR perhaps dwarves could even be set to specific endpoints so as to make sure they always stay in the right area regardless of construction...
Logged

UltraValican

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Man aiming to be a Man!
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 06:10:24 pm »

I know this has been suggested before(beter pathing at least)
There is already a fairly simple procedure to avoid this
Set up a construction point in the area you don't want a dorf to stand on when building
Suspend said point
Designate actual walls.
Logged
Would you rather be an Ant in Heaven or a Man in Hell?

coolio678

  • Bay Watcher
  • whooshing winds and all that jazz
    • View Profile
Logged
Dwarves passing by get good thoughts from the mist of water and exploding felines.
Anyone of the equivalent to the royal bloodline in a nomadic group would have a sun tattooed on their hand, or a scrotum on their forehead (it's a little-known fact that fraternities are based off of long-forgotten tribes).

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 04:41:46 pm »

This post is the equivalent of me glaring at you, menacingly whilst drinking a cup of tea.

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 02:16:05 am »

So what, every time you want to build a wall, every dwarf in the fortress has to go through pathfinding checks when they do anything or go anywhere? Does everyone instantly have to move 'inside' or it won't let you build the construction?

No, having dwarfs that religiously behave the same way no matter what is the only way to prevent bedlam. Um, worse bedlam than normal.
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

Jacos

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 11:47:50 am »

How about, a Dwarf has to be able to path find to another Dwarf if he builds the wall, or else he is not allowed to build it? Should prevent a lot of issues.
Logged
Dwarven Science: We do what we must, because, we're bored.

Every few miles, [the dwarves] stop the cart.  One of the dwarfs (sic) gets off, digs a hole down below the dirt layers, licks the bedrock, and then they know exactly where they are.  It's called GPS: Geological Piquancy Sampling.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 11:50:17 am »

And what if you want to have a dwarf wall himself in.
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 02:19:25 pm »

How about, a Dwarf has to be able to path find to another Dwarf if he builds the wall, or else he is not allowed to build it? Should prevent a lot of issues.

Or just have dwarves walling themselves in together.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, 02:38:49 pm »

This really isn't a priority issue and almost all suggestions I have seen  eiter restrict player freedom or make the problem even worse. JUst use de designation, supend and cancel method, it isn't that hard and way less complicated than anything I have seen.

Furthermore dwarves are completly predictable in how they build(see wiki) so you really should see it coming.
Logged

Veylon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2011, 04:10:19 am »

I have a simple solution: allow walls to optionally have facing, the way bridges have the option to raise in a certain direction, to indicate which side you want the dwarf to build from. No pathfinding checks, no player freedom restrictions, no additional menus or keystrokes if you don't want to bother with it, just a single keypress when you're picking the size.
Logged
At what point did the suggestion of child sacrifice become the more ethical option?

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 02:02:12 pm »

I have a simple solution: allow walls to optionally have facing, the way bridges have the option to raise in a certain direction, to indicate which side you want the dwarf to build from. No pathfinding checks, no player freedom restrictions, no additional menus or keystrokes if you don't want to bother with it, just a single keypress when you're picking the size.

And we have a winner!

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A way to avoid dwarves walling themselves in...
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2011, 02:12:55 pm »

Extend (optionally, of course, so current default behaviour can still be relied upon) to the task of removing floors/etc.  Also useful for ensuring the (de)constructed isn't standing on a perfectly valid location (for the end-point of the (de)constructor getting back to the dining room/wherever afterwards) that just happens to be in the way for some other task.

Perhaps in mining, too.  Although a vastly more complicated system than this nice and simple one might end up being suggested where the whole micromanaging of "this point before this point, before that point, but after that point, after that point after that point" long wished for by the multi-Z channelling desirees, etc. :)
Logged