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Author Topic: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?  (Read 3355 times)

MagmaMcFry

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2011, 04:54:34 pm »

I suspect that this is due to the bug where a change in a creature's status gets retroactively applied to all historical references to that dwarf, and where kill credit is given to the last creature who injured the target no matter the actual cause of death.  So at some point your dwarf injured this dwarf.  Later the injured dwarf died, which caused the killer to get credit.  Then the dead dwarf became a ghost, and all historical references to him (including the other dwarf's kill list) now refer to him as a ghost, even if he wasn't at the time of death.

This.
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2011, 05:05:21 pm »

I'm pretty sure it actually just means that he killed a dwarf, and that dwarf is now a ghost, as opposed to properly buried  Note this also appears in the relationship screen.e.g. husband ghostly fisherdwarf. This makes it less of a bug and more of an interesting detail/notification.
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krenshala

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2011, 05:41:05 pm »

The telling point, one way or the other, is whether he viewed the combat report before the combat ended and the dwarf died, or after the dwarf died and his ghost manifested in the fortress.

As others have said, if you viewed report after the ghost was present, then it would list him as being a ghost in the report.  If you viewed the report before he died, and it still listed him as a ghost, however, then your dwarf is apparently a militant ghost-buster. :)
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Excedion

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 06:22:09 pm »

I have but one question. If you kill a ghost, and you do not bury them, do they spawn a ghost of a ghost?
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ZzarkLinux

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2011, 07:05:33 pm »

I have but one question. If you kill a ghost, and you do not bury them, do they spawn a ghost of a ghost?

They don't leave a corpse so I'm not sure.

Does the offending dwarf get jailed for double murder ?
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2011, 07:19:04 pm »

As others have said, if you viewed report after the ghost was present, then it would list him as being a ghost in the report.  If you viewed the report before he died, and it still listed him as a ghost, however, then your dwarf is apparently a militant ghost-buster. :)

Wait, if the dwarf got listed as a ghost before the ghost was present...

Then that would be a violation of cause and effect! DF could predict the future! And your dwarf would either be a time traveller, a future psychic, or a huge liar. Either way, he is badass.


By the way, I'm also a future psychic: In three seconds, you will notice you've been fooled. One... Two...
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Gizogin

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 08:23:38 pm »

I suspect that this is due to the bug where a change in a creature's status gets retroactively applied to all historical references to that dwarf, and where kill credit is given to the last creature who injured the target no matter the actual cause of death.  So at some point your dwarf injured this dwarf.  Later the injured dwarf died, which caused the killer to get credit.  Then the dead dwarf became a ghost, and all historical references to him (including the other dwarf's kill list) now refer to him as a ghost, even if he wasn't at the time of death.
It sounds as though he was indeed killed while a ghost.  Plus, I believe that dwarves' ghosts are actually separate entities from the dwarves that they used to be.  After all, the units list will (correct me if I'm wrong) still show the original (dead) dwarf even while his/her ghost is running around.
The retroactive status change (again, correct me if I'm wrong) applies more to night creature spouses and the like.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 08:25:43 pm by Gizogin »
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krenshala

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 10:31:18 pm »

I suspect that this is due to the bug where a change in a creature's status gets retroactively applied to all historical references to that dwarf, and where kill credit is given to the last creature who injured the target no matter the actual cause of death.  So at some point your dwarf injured this dwarf.  Later the injured dwarf died, which caused the killer to get credit.  Then the dead dwarf became a ghost, and all historical references to him (including the other dwarf's kill list) now refer to him as a ghost, even if he wasn't at the time of death.
It sounds as though he was indeed killed while a ghost.  Plus, I believe that dwarves' ghosts are actually separate entities from the dwarves that they used to be.  After all, the units list will (correct me if I'm wrong) still show the original (dead) dwarf even while his/her ghost is running around.
The retroactive status change (again, correct me if I'm wrong) applies more to night creature spouses and the like.
I'm not sure about this ... it makes me want to deconstruct the coffin of the idiot dwarf that drown himself in the well to see if, when he shows up as a ghost, his deceased entry stays or not.  I never thought to check on my last fortress where I actually had a ghost ...
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Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Mapleguy555

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2011, 12:22:02 am »

Try reviving the blighter with Runesmith.
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Aachen

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2011, 01:06:42 am »


I'm not sure about this ... it makes me want to deconstruct the coffin of the idiot dwarf that drown himself in the well to see if, when he shows up as a ghost, his deceased entry stays or not.  I never thought to check on my last fortress where I actually had a ghost ...

Nope. All four ghosts in my current fort (merchants or caravan guards) do not have a separate listing as "deceased," only that which lists them as "undead."
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maksymka

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2011, 03:34:55 am »

The problem here is that he was killed as a ghost. The story is as following:
Urist McMason was very smart. He always thought to himself:
-Why should I take a long road back to the Fortress, when I can save three tiles and walk over that frozen river! This is genius! Armok bless the ice.
However, when spring came and part of the ice in the south melted, that should have rang a bell to Urist McMason. Not only he refused to clean himself from well within a fortress(platinum block, platinum chains, platinum bucket, and engravings around the well), but he insisted on walking down the ice north of the river to save himself three extra tiles of walk.
-How can they clean themselves inside the Fort? Look at all the sunshine, flowers blooming, birds singing. This is what..,-suddenly Urist McMason heared a cracking noise, that made him stop his monologue, - What is that noise? Why is it coming from the ice. AHHH, Bulb-bulb-bulb!
Urist McMason was a good mason but horrible swimmer. His body has not been retrieved from the river. For six month, any dwarf that would pass by the river would see two pale eyes and a smile, looking at them from the sand bottom. Then, in the late autumn, ice covered the river again, and since then noone could find Urist McMason's body. But they say, if at night on the full moon you look at the river, then you might see a ghostly dwarf walking and cleaning himself in the river.

-----

Well, I am not good in writing anyway. But you get the concept on his death. After two or three years, he came back as a ghost. I did not mind him. He was neutral. Would not do anything bad, except haunting some other dwarves. Once after an ambush I looked through one of my dwarves kill-list to check his contribution. That is when I saw the killed ghost. So I looked over the battle report and there it was. There were fighting for unkown reason but then ghost got strucked down. I looked for the ghost of "Goldenbridges" and did not find him anywhere. So I assume he got vanished into oblivion forever.
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Ieb

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2011, 03:44:23 am »

Now there's a thought.
Someone needs to do SCIENCE on a ghost-riddled fort by giving every surviving dorf gear and hope they get in fights with malignant ghosts. If we're in luck, all that those ghosts want is a good fight and they go down for good if killed again(since they aren't material, maybe they count like FB's and titans made of water, chopped to pieces by anything that brushes them?).

If this is just because of that retroactive listing on killed entities, then the ghosts can't be harmed in any way and we can settle this matter once and for all.
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maksymka

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2011, 03:54:28 am »

You have to love this game. Only in Dwarf Fortress, you would subject half of the fort population to genocide and made the the said fort haunted. Then you would force other half of population to sleep, eat and drink at this fort, to see if you can kill ghosts. Oh, and the living dwarves have to carry weapon with them to use against their dead friends. Smells like Dwarf Fortress...

--------------
P.S. disturbing thing is that someone will, in fact, do it.
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MiniMacker

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2011, 05:11:47 am »

Quick! Someone mod in the Proton pack!


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JJtoocool

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Re: Killed Ghost: Bug or a Feature?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2011, 05:33:56 am »

Quick! Someone mod in the Proton pack!




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