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[Deep Waters]

Keep it secret for now....but soon....

Did priest guy learn anything about the trees?

Oh, and we should use see vitality on the trees.

We did, in the second-to-last post, and it was even in front of Eko. They looked like normal, healthy trees. Now that I think of it-- as long as we don't do obviously necromancer things in front of Eko, like raise dead things or maybe make golems (can't remember if that's an ability commonly attributed to Necromancers), we might not have to worry as much as I thought we did. Eko admitted himself that he doesn't know that much about other types of magic.

I wonder if it's a good idea to follow up on our previous conversation and ask him if it's possible that, since no other branch of magic was able to help, Necromantic magic may be the only way to lift this particular Necromantic curse. What do you guys think? In any case, as far as I can tell we have three spells that may be useful for this situation: Command Undead, Impair Undead, and Steal Vitality. At least the first is an obviously Necromantic spell, but we may be able to pass the other two off as something other than Necromantic in a pinch (though obviously that would be revealed as a lie should we ever tell Eko our real nature). Impair Undead may only work on physical undead, though, and both the former two assume this is a form of undead rather than some sort of ethereal golem, so again I'm arriving at Steal Vitality as the best option... well, that train of thought was useless. If the sapling thing turns up with nothing, we won't be able to do anything until that creature shows up-- if it ever shows up.

If no one else can think of anything to do (literally anything), I suggest that, as a last resort to keep from utterly wasting time while waiting, we read Eko's copy of A Study of Aloclesno-- or, if that's not possible, study more of our copy of Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner.

[endlessblaze]

But did eko learn anything with his spell?

[monk12]

But did eko learn anything with his spell?

Aw nuts, looks like I forgot to save that edit before I posted. No, Eko didn't find anything notably different about those saplings compared to the other trees in the area.

[Andres]

First of all, I think we should cast See Vitality on the surrounding trees to see if something's wrong with them that only a necromancer can see.

-1 to casting Steal Vitality on the saplings. They could be our one chance of repairing the children's health. Literally killing said chance is probably not very wise.

Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.

[Deep Waters]

First of all, I think we should cast See Vitality on the surrounding trees to see if something's wrong with them that only a necromancer can see.

-1 to casting Steal Vitality on the saplings. They could be our one chance of repairing the children's health. Literally killing said chance is probably not very wise.

Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.

   The clearing looks no different in the light of day than when you first saw it; the ground is flat and covered with tall grass and leaves, and two young trees near the center of the clearing stretch toward the midday sun. At a nod from you, Eko begins walking around the clearing, preparing to enclose the entire area in a Minor Ward. You cast See Vitality, and at your urging Omo casts Sense Vitality.

   You take a moment to look at Omo and Eko with your newly-enhanced vision. As far as you can tell, the Vitality network within them moves just like that of Ado Drunkenstumbles back at the Temple, except they aren't wounded. You don't see anything new, and while every individual you've looked at with this spell has had a unique Vitality system (Omo definitely has longer ears, among other things,) you don't notice any major differences between Omo and Eko. Of course, all this confirms is that something was very wrong with the Vitality of the victims of Aloclesno.

   Examining the rest of the clearing reveals nothing out of the ordinary; the young trees are healthy saplings, the grass is basically tiny useless tubes of Vitality, and the surrounding trees all appear to be in good shape despite their unfriendly appearance. While Eko works on his ward, you and Omo take a quick circuit just outside the clearing.

Already did that. If there's something there that only a Necromancer can see, it's probably more advanced than anything we have right now. I agree with your other ideas, though. -1 to casting Steal Vitality on the saplings, +1 to transferring the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf. I'm not sure the latter will amount to anything more than a normal Steal Vitality, since we've effectively done what Transfer Vitality would do before, but it's something to do at least.

(Also, I don't know if this is why you were bringing it up, but I wasn't talking about casting Steal Vitality on the saplings, which is a stupid idea that wouldn't go anywhere no matter how you spin it. I was talking about casting Steal Vitality on the creature that chased us out of the grove when we rescued the children.)

[Andres]

(Sorry, I'd thought someone had suggested that for some reason.)

[monk12]

Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.

Is this an action for your Planned Experiments tab, or is it an action you intend to take care of in the morning (and if so, what- if any- secrecy measures do you take?)

[Andres]

Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.

Is this an action for your Planned Experiments tab, or is it an action you intend to take care of in the morning (and if so, what- if any- secrecy measures do you take?)

Something to do at night when everyone's going to sleep. As for secrecy measures, we'll tell them we're relieving ourselves and then walk far enough away for some privacy.

[Descan]

Have we asked Eko if he's heard of, or even think it's possible, for a necromancer to be, you know, good? Ranging from helping with his/her magic the way we want to, or just living their life on a farm, maybe with some golems to do the hard work, but otherwise not going all crazy world-dictatory-genocide? I seem to remember *someone* having an answer to that, and his answer to the "Possible?" one would be enlightening, depending on how rabid/incredulous he seems when he says no. There's a difference between the "No"'s of "I... don't really see how it is..." and "That's insanity, how could a necromancer be good?!"

And if he actually DOES say "Yeah, but I've never heard of one," or something positive, that's fucking spectacular.

It'd be relatively easy to ask, since we're supposed to be students of magic, and we can go "I've read about all these different magic schools, and they all have their good apples and bad apples, but necromancy seems the odd one out, and I don't really get why. Obviously the whole 'dead people' thing is a mark against it, but from what I read, necromancy isn't only about dead people. I've heard of constructs made of wood in the necromancers armies, and those... probably aren't made using dead people. No one really seems to know how it works. There's probably some other things they can do, maybe some form of divination from dead animals and entrails? So why do you think there's such a difference? Where are the necromantic 'good apples,' is that even possible?" or something like that.


THAT SAID: What about divination from dead animals/entrails? Have we tried that? It IS the main historical thing people used for divination, after all...

[Parisbre56]

Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.

Haven't we already tried that though? Isn't it how we got to make golems in the first place? By putting vitality in a tree and making it a golem or zombie or something like that? I think it's not enough to give vitality to something, you have to modify it if you want something more complex.
(EDIT: Unless you mean to take the tree's soul and put it in another tree, without destroying it.)

As for cursing, if I remember correctly, the problem with the children was that their vitality network was not pulsing as strongly, like there was something missing from it. And we have a spell that can impair undead by messing with their vitality network. So if we want to curse someone, we simply have to mess with their network somehow, similarly to what we do with undead. We could try that on a tree, see if we can get it to start withering.

Reversing the damage would probably be a lot harder though. It is easier to destroy than to create. A tree is simple and could perhaps repair itself if given enough vitality and help from us, but a human would probably be more complex. Plus, we do not know what exactly destroyed or stole their souls or how it did so, so repairing the damage would be more hard.

(BTW I'm rereading the entire thread, so I can remember stuff. I've made an archive so I can read it offline from my phone, you can find it here if you want: http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/Necromancer_0.html)

[Andres]

Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.

Haven't we already tried that though? Isn't it how we got to make golems in the first place? By putting vitality in a tree and making it a golem or zombie or something like that? I think it's not enough to give vitality to something, you have to modify it if you want something more complex.

If I remember correctly we used mana for that. What I'm suggesting is putting our very vitality into it, maybe mixing it with mana as well. Maybe we should also trying partially using Steal Vitality?

[Parisbre56]

Found it:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After tidying up your new getaway, you decide to celebrate with some experimentation!

First up, you decide to give your vitality stealing powers a swing. After a moment's consideration, you decide against zapping any of the trees holding up your abode, instead moving to the other end of your hollow to zap one of the trees there. Placing your hand on the tree trunk, you Steal Vitality.

You feel your magical energy pierce the tree, and siphon some of its Vitality. You can almost hear the tree groan as your magic attacks its life-force directly, but soon your eyes detect a glowing purple ball of energy emerge from the bark, floating before you. It begins to float towards you as though drawn by a swift current, but focusing your will you hold the Vitality away from you- you don't need it yourself, after all. Instead, you decide to try and use this energy to destroy something! You set your sights on a nearby rock, forced mostly out of the ground by growing roots and about as large as your head. You throw the Vitality at it, forcing the energy into it! You feel great resistance, but your will prevails, and-

Animate Object

You blink in disbelief as the rock suddenly draws the Vitality into itself! You take a step forward, but are suddenly swept by a feeling of intense vertigo! The vertigo passes, but you feel something swell within yourself, as if long-tensed muscles had finally been allowed to relax, stretching outward. You happily note your Mana pool seems larger- your practice is paying off!

Cautiously, you approach the rock- it looks rather the same as it did before. Frowning, you begin to cast Sense Vitality, but stop- you can already see the Vitality of the rock! It registers as having 2- presumably what you stole from the tree. You glance at the tree- you can't tell how much Vitality it has, though you know the Sense Vitality spell would tell you. You'd heard that practiced Mages could sense Vitality even without the aid of a spell, but you'd always dismissed that as a rumor. Perhaps skill in the magical arts brings more than an increased Mana Pool, you muse.

You bend closer- to your eye, the rock appears to have a fine network of purple lines across it. You sense, rather than see, an undirected ball of Vitality within. The rock doesn't appear to be doing anything.

Sighing, you consider your situation. Animating that rock took a lot of Mana- it is only midafternoon, but you don't have that much Mana left. Should you continue with one of your less Mana-intensive experiments, or do you have an idea for an experiment you could do related to your new-found abilities? And what will you do with the Rock, when you finish for today? You don't know if you can easily destroy it, and although you can probably suck the Vitality out of it with a spell that would leave nothing for experimentation. Then again, it's a rock- it doesn't appear to be able to move, and it isn't obviously alive undead animate. What harm could there be in leaving it be?

So unless you mean to take the tree's soul and put it in another tree...

[Andres]

Do trees even have souls? Have we seen anyone have a soul, actually? In any case, let's see what happens when we put our own vitality into something. A living thing to see if disruption occurs, a dead thing to compare how well we can control it using normal Animate Object when using our own vitality instead of something else's, and removing our vitality from the living thing from the first experiment, seeing if the disruption remains or gets righted.

[Parisbre56]

We saw the difference in the kids. Don't know if it counts as souls.

Actually I was reading back, and it turns out you are right. I have yet to see Nym put vitality in something dead, only in objects or living things. I don't think the results would be different, but it might be worth investigating. It might teach us how to mass animate by splitting the vitality to multiple targets. Amd it might lead to something similar with for raise undead and animate object, find a way to animate more for less mana.

Edit: Just putting vitality in living b things doesn't work though. It either heals them if they're injured or dissipates if they're not. You'd probably need to injure them first and then somehow corrupt the vitality you are giving them to turn it into a curse (or blessing, although that would probably be harder).

[Andres]

With all our vitality experiments so far we've been implanting things with vitality from other things, right? Never our own? If it's true, then implanting a rock, for example, with our own vitality than with the vitality of a tree might get us different results. It is our vitality, after all, and we're controlling the thing that has our vitality.