Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Angle]

Eh, Let's not be making up stories - That has an awfully large chance to go wrong.

[GlyphGryph]

The story contains the seed of truth we'll need to ever be honest with him. It tests him in all the areas he needs to be tested. It's an introduction to concepts and check of character - the story might not be true, but the point is to educate him to the nature of things in steps that he can accept and understand.

[Harbingerjm]

We know a secret of his, we should share with him a secret of ours. We should bring him with us, that our actions involve a new secret we share together. Such activities bind people together more strongly than almost anything else.

The secret we reveal will not be the truth. But I think I have the person thing to say.

Say Eko can come with, but caution him that if he does so, he will become party to Elven secrets that may never be shared with anyone. Much as the dogmatic forces of Order have opposed his activities, activities which could have done real good, they would oppose what the elves have done. If he comes with you, he will learn much about dealing with the undead, perhaps things that will be useful to him, but he will be sworn to secrecy.

I get the feelings the promises of a priest of Order might be pretty strong. When we have moved away from the town and set up camp at the edge of the forest, we tell him a story...

The elves are not strangers to the recent spate of Necromancers. In fact, once, long ago, there was a Necromancer that arose even among the elves. This is a story about that elf. None outside the Elven lands have heard of this, and even many within are none the wiser, but despite feeling the call of Necromancy this elf was no madman intent on power - he did not raise an army, and did not conquer. Instead, he slowly revealed himself to those he could trust. They worked together to understand his powers, and not just to understand them, but to counter them - he was willing to provide the opportunity to uncover knowledge that could be used in just the kind of situation that is happening now. It worked. With access to a Necromancer, they were unable to uncover effective techniques in fighting them. The Elves possess knowledge of techniques that are effective in fighting the effects of Necromancy, techniques likely unknown to the rest of the world - and though the Elven Necromancer himself no longer lives, a side effect of his strong morals, draining his own life force to fuel his spells (and a story for another time) his teachings live on.

See how he responds. If it's anything but aghast, if he's actually open to this - note that it progresses steadily. Stop, reassure him, insure he's ready to learn more before telling him anything that implicates you directly...

You are a disciple of these teachings. You have learned spells tailored to overcoming necromancy, and it's likely the Order wouldn't approve of them. You have left the world to test these abilities against the threat Cumo poses, to insure their effectiveness, and (if possible) to undo what damage he's caused to the extent that you can. You believe they may be of use to the creature in the forest - that you can use them to do good, here and now, and save lives - but traveling with you into the woods will make him a party to this endeavor. He can leave now, and you will do what you can and then depart - you trust he will keep your secret. Or he can aid you, and learn more about these tools that might prove the key to bringing down Nightroar.

This order of events is specifically tailored to ease Eko into the idea of working with us, and to convince him that what we are doing is right but needs to be kept secret. It's also a way to test his opinion on things, without being outright dishonest with him and hiding things from him. What he thinks of this "historical" elven Necromancer will be important to how we proceed.

If possible, discuss the story you'll tell with Omo first, he does seem to like storytelling and might have good suggestions to add flaire, and having him be able to support you in some way and keeping your story straight would make it more convincing.

It's a lie told to a guy who loves researching and finding stuff out. One that would be fairly easily discovered, and that raises questions about "well if it's so accepted among elves how come you're a fugitive?" and the like, not to mention the problems if we ever did go back. No, that's a terrible idea.

[GlyphGryph]

The point is that it's not a lie we want to keep for long. And easily discovered how? In what way?

We WANT him to know the truth, even discover it, we just want him to accept us despite it - we have potential for a seriously valuable ally here, and a ripe situation to take advantage of it.

[Parisbre56]

I don't think we should lie.

When he realises what we are there are simple ways to convince him. We can convince him that we're good. He said that Order teaches that every magic user plays a part in The Plan. Why can't that include Death magic. Necromancy doesn't mean one should be evil. It's a misconception, just like the misconception that elves can't be necromancers. Plus we just saved his life by our use of necromancy. He broke some insignificant rules for the greater good. He feels like he has to do something, even  if that breaks some rules, even if he has to leave his post. This is his chance to do something instead of waiting for something to happen.

If that fails, we can threaten him with blackmail. We know his secret. He's already under scrutiny. Walking around with a necromancer and the revelation of what's in a basement would ensure he wouldn't stay alive for long if he contacted the authorities. He has already lost his home either way. Why not come with us and help save the world?

If that fails... We'll see. We either kill him or tie him up and force him to come with us.

Of course this is for when we're discovered , not right now.

[GlyphGryph]

Then don't tell him that exact story - but tell him a metaphor. Tell him a "legend". Do SOMETHING to prepare him for accepting the possibility.

The only thing about our story that is a lie is the time it takes place - that it's in process instead of already decided.

That (and, ok, the gender of the elf in question) are the only lies. Everything else is true.

[Parisbre56]

We can tell him that we have some kind of secret. Asking him to swear secrecy or explaining that it is sognificant somehow. Dance around the subject a bit. I like that idea. As long as we don't lie. Half truths are fine.

[GlyphGryph]

Well, the second half is true. That is really why we are out here.

If need be, you can even SAY that the first half is just a story and not the whole truth, just the most you can reveal.

We want him to get the truth, but we want to do it in a way that we can deny it and leave him with enough doubt to make our mistake if things go sour. The whole point is to let him read between the lines and figure it out sooner or later whether we tell him or not.

We're giving him plausible deniability if he gets caught as to what exactly was going on. We're giving him a way to convince himself out of revealing us, especially since we have his secret already.

This isn't a lie so much as it is giving him options about whether or not he really wants to pursue the truth.

But, and here's the important thing (I quote many great people who have said this):
Never hesitate to sacrifice truth for understanding.

"The Facts" won't help him understand the situation nearly as much as the story I wrote will. And we want him to really truly understand the situation - that means providing context. It means inaccuracies that slowly work him closer to the truth, because it's about opening his mind to possibilities he can only consider if its been readied for him.

Communicating the truth is far more important than telling the truth - and if we don't do the groundwork, he'll never believe us. He's got a lifetime of experience, much of it very recent, to overcome first.

[Angle]

We should see if we can get him into a discussion of why so many necromancer go on zombie powered rampages. It seems like as good a way to approach the subject as any.

[Parisbre56]

Yeah, I like both of those ideas.

Saying something along the lines of "This story isn't the exact truth, but it's as close to the truth as I am allowed to give you." sounds good.

[syvarris]

In terms of his ability to fight this monster, he's completely useless.

Umm.  I don't remember anything like this being said, but my memory is fuzzy about this game, so I'll defer to you.  Still, he has healing magic, and those wards.  Plus, if zombies or something wander near he can almost certainly help wih those.

And at the very least he's another potential target for the creature.  Instead of a 50/50 chance of it taking us, it's a 33/33/33.

You mean, groups like the army it was created/summoned to destroy?

No.  Or maybe.  Pretty much, I'm just wondering if it works like normal horror monsters, with the "As long as it's a lone person, they're not safe.".  Or at the very least if a higher percentage of groups who went in came back then pairs or loners.  Probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.

No, no we have not. Which is why I suggest telling him that since Order magic apparently does nothing to the creature and he is likely far less capable in forests than either Omo or us, he should stay behind.

When was it said that order magic doesn't work on the creature?  Regardless, the -only- disadvantage of taking Eko is that we can't use obvious necromancy.  The only spell we were going to use is steal vitality, and if he gets curious about that, we can tell him GG's story.

Speaking of, I don't think we should tell that story yet.  We don't know if Eko will join our group, and it could be risky to tell it now.  I think it's a good idea if Eko becomes a long-term companion, but not before that's been proven.  Also, it would just be a terrible idea to say we're a necromancer before testing the water.  For all we know, he might have lost family and friends to zombies, and just assign all that hate to necromancers.

[RAM]

We also want to use command undead, which would allow us to learn about the entity and possibly save the children.

I am strongly opposed to the idea of either killing or forcing Eko to join us. We should be relatively safe from order if we stay close to the forest, as we are better equipped to deal with it then they are. If we start kidnapping and murdering to protect our secret, then we are almost certain to end up just as bad as any of the other necromancers. We go on this trip prepared to never return to the village. If Eko finds out about us, then we leave, follow the edge of the forest, and Eko is welcome to travel with us, but can go back and tell the knights if that is what he chooses to do.

[Grek]

It's very important that we make it clear to Eko that if he comes with us, he's going to have to keep our method for destroying the curse a secret. If he can't swear to that, he can't come with us. I don't think telling him a made up story about secret elven techniques is a good idea - if he's hesitant at all about promising to keep this a secret, we really can't trust him to come along.

[Harbingerjm]

Umm.  I don't remember anything like this being said, but my memory is fuzzy about this game, so I'll defer to you.  Still, he has healing magic, and those wards.  Plus, if zombies or something wander near he can almost certainly help wih those.

And at the very least he's another potential target for the creature.  Instead of a 50/50 chance of it taking us, it's a 33/33/33.

... No Order mage has ever managed to do anything to the creature, or heal its victims. His wards block our sight. Not only can he not actually do anything to help, he can actually hinder us by trying.

No.  Or maybe.  Pretty much, I'm just wondering if it works like normal horror monsters, with the "As long as it's a lone person, they're not safe.".  Or at the very least if a higher percentage of groups who went in came back then pairs or loners.  Probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.

It was created to destroy an army. It damn near did, and the only ones that survived were the ones that legged it. I really, really don't think it is less likely to attack groups. If anything, it would likely be the other way around- that is, a better chance of escaping notice on your own. As for it not being able to hurt to ask, I suppose that is true, that is if we don't care if Eko has the slightest bit of respect for our intellect.

When was it said that order magic doesn't work on the creature?

When it was said that they've been trying to destroy it and/or heal its victims for hundreds of years with no success?

Regardless, the -only- disadvantage of taking Eko is that we can't use obvious necromancy.  The only spell we were going to use is steal vitality, and if he gets curious about that, we can tell him GG's story.

Wrong.

[Cellmonk]

I think we should give him a couple chances to convey his opinions about necromancy. I'd advise against entering the forest with him without him knowing our nature.
If he is overly lawful or hateful, we shouldn't continue to test him. So far he seems to be minimally lawful, and he appears to trust us, but he may be hiding something deeply seated.

Remember that the "thou shalt not suffer a necromancer to live" law is ages old, and thus not necessarily deeply seated in the more modern culture.

Those arguing about his usefulness neglect his extensive knowledge and mastery of a different branch of magic. It appears that many advanced spells utilize multiple orders of magic. We may need order magic to do things such as golemancy.