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[Descan]

Plus, leather and metal would work for the servants who need the delicate touch. :3

[Child of Armok]

We need to make the components of the doll real parts off a body. The doll's legs have the shape of legs but the doll doesn't "know" it a

But then what's the point of making a golem in the first place? Why not just use a corpse? The only possible benefit I could see is to be able to make a whole zombie from the parts of several other corpses that by themselves are missing their own parts- like attaching the head of another ant to the beheaded ant at the beginning of the story. I doubt it would do much for our image as the Good Necromancer to play Dr. Frankenstein like that. Besides, Ropey hardly had anything that resembled eyes on its head when we gave it sight.

(Also, I like how we tend to refer to You are a Necromancer as a story rather than a game. I think that says something about it.)

I don't mean to make them real arms but to make them arms like we made the eyes eyes. 'Cause the point of making is to make zombies who aren't made of flesh. 

[Deep Waters]

We could always ask to learn metalsmithing under the dwarves, and maybe leatherworking somewhere as well. After all, we should be able to do everything we need to do to make our golems ourselves, even if we don't have to.

I wonder... if we have to give our golems sight and muscles and the like, does that mean we can't create golems of any other shape but humanoid? After all, we hardly know what it means to be quadrupedal.

[Baneling]

But then what about the giant bone monster from the Elven homeland? That didn't sound bipedal from what I remember. Maybe we're looking at it the wrong way?

[Deep Waters]

But then what about the giant bone monster from the Elven homeland? That didn't sound bipedal from what I remember. Maybe we're looking at it the wrong way?

Objection: We don't know what the Golgothans looked like. :3

[Stonecutters]

I've been following this story for a while and I finally decided to contribute to this wonderful work of art. I'm willing to wait for updates from Monk, so long as he doesn't let this die.

Has it been stated that golems can only be created in the form of humanoid or animal creatures? Remember the time with that rock? We invested vitality in it. While it didn't seem to have any intelligence, it was "alive" in a sense. Could we then have used that vitality to have it perform tasks? Say we invest a door with vitality. Using Animate Object and Alter Golem could we then "program" it to perform tasks? We could have it keep track of people entering and leaving, or even refuse entrance to predesignated individuals or groups. It could also have the side-affect of making the door stronger and resistant to damage. On a grand scale we could invest entire buildings, castles, or towns.

If the above holds true, it may be possible to create entire automated defense systems using golems. This would be even more useful if Necromatic Sight is required to view the enchantment without the casting of a Detect Vitality spell or some other magical detection.

I do recognize that my ideas would most likely take astronomical amounts of vitality. We could get around this somewhat if we find a way to store vitality in potions, or have people volunteer to give a small amount of their vitality. We could easily get the amount we need if we have enough volunteers. Prejudice against Necromancers will make finding volunteers difficult though.

EDIT: I would also like to vote for telling Omo about our powers at the next available opportunity. Preferably at the first night on the road from the city.

[Deep Waters]

I've been following this story for a while and I finally decided to contribute to this wonderful work of art. I'm willing to wait for updates from Monk, so long as he doesn't let this die.

Has it been stated that golems can only be created in the form of humanoid or animal creatures? Remember the time with that rock? We invested vitality in it. While it didn't seem to have any intelligence, it was "alive" in a sense. Could we then have used that vitality to have it perform tasks? Say we invest a door with vitality. Using Animate Object and Alter Golem could we then "program" it to perform tasks? We could have it keep track of people entering and leaving, or even refuse entrance to predesignated individuals or groups. It could also have the side-affect of making the door stronger and resistant to damage. On a grand scale we could invest entire buildings, castles, or towns.

If the above holds true, it may be possible to create entire automated defense systems using golems. This would be even more useful if Necromatic Sight is required to view the enchantment without the casting of a Detect Vitality spell or some other magical detection.

I do recognize that my ideas would most likely take astronomical amounts of vitality. We could get around this somewhat if we find a way to store vitality in potions, or have people volunteer to give a small amount of their vitality. We could easily get the amount we need if we have enough volunteers. Prejudice against Necromancers will make finding volunteers difficult though.

Nononononononono, you don't get it. First of all, it was never confirmed that vitality is what is needed to create the semblance of life in objects, aside from that inherent in being animated. That was my own hypothesis. Besides, while an imaginative concept, Alter Golem was never indicated to be able to bestow intelligence or programmable function; bestowing an object with "vitality eyes" is far removed from giving it the ability to differentiate between that creature and this creature, and is most definitely nothing like making an object more durable in any sense of the term.

As for the humanoid/animal argument, I didn't mean that we couldn't create golems in other shapes; I apologize for wording my sentence like that. What I meant was that, due to the implications of how we gave that golem sight- which was by imagining ourselves looking at the forest canopy as if we were the golem, and we had eyes- it makes me wonder if we're able to give a golem any ability that we ourselves are not capable of- we can't imagine what it's like the move a set of reverse-jointed legs because we don't have any, we can't imagine what it's like to see like a bee because we don't have bee vision, and because we can't imagine either of those scenarios- if the implication holds true- we can't bestow either of those abilities onto a golem. See what I mean here?

[Stonecutters]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've been following this story for a while and I finally decided to contribute to this wonderful work of art. I'm willing to wait for updates from Monk, so long as he doesn't let this die.

Has it been stated that golems can only be created in the form of humanoid or animal creatures? Remember the time with that rock? We invested vitality in it. While it didn't seem to have any intelligence, it was "alive" in a sense. Could we then have used that vitality to have it perform tasks? Say we invest a door with vitality. Using Animate Object and Alter Golem could we then "program" it to perform tasks? We could have it keep track of people entering and leaving, or even refuse entrance to predesignated individuals or groups. It could also have the side-affect of making the door stronger and resistant to damage. On a grand scale we could invest entire buildings, castles, or towns.

If the above holds true, it may be possible to create entire automated defense systems using golems. This would be even more useful if Necromatic Sight is required to view the enchantment without the casting of a Detect Vitality spell or some other magical detection.

I do recognize that my ideas would most likely take astronomical amounts of vitality. We could get around this somewhat if we find a way to store vitality in potions, or have people volunteer to give a small amount of their vitality. We could easily get the amount we need if we have enough volunteers. Prejudice against Necromancers will make finding volunteers difficult though.

Nononononononono, you don't get it. First of all, it was never confirmed that vitality is what is needed to create the semblance of life in objects, aside from that inherent in being animated. That was my own hypothesis. Besides, while an imaginative concept, Alter Golem was never indicated to be able to bestow intelligence or programmable function; bestowing an object with "vitality eyes" is far removed from giving it the ability to differentiate between that creature and this creature, and is most definitely nothing like making an object more durable in any sense of the term.

As for the humanoid/animal argument, I didn't mean that we couldn't create golems in other shapes; I apologize for wording my sentence like that. What I meant was that, due to the implications of how we gave that golem sight- which was by imagining ourselves looking at the forest canopy as if we were the golem, and we had eyes- it makes me wonder if we're able to give a golem any ability that we ourselves are not capable of- we can't imagine what it's like the move a set of reverse-jointed legs because we don't have any, we can't imagine what it's like to see like a bee because we don't have bee vision, and because we can't imagine either of those scenarios- if the implication holds true- we can't bestow either of those abilities onto a golem. See what I mean here?

Yes I understand, or at least think I do anyway. I was merely throwing out an idea I had regarding golems. All of my ideas will need experimented with to see if they have any truth or even work. I don't remember trying to bestow intelligence to the rope golem we made, or attempting to command it. The only change we made was "vitality eyes". If we are unable to Animate the golem to do tasks it is instructed to do, then why make them? It has already been established that zombies can be commanded, so golems, properly Altered, may be commandable too. If not, then its not very useful outside of direct control. I very much would like to see if investing vitality in an object changes the physical characteristics of it in any way. If its found to reinforce the object, Great! If not, to bad. Constructing golems is a field of necromancy that, so far, we've only just discovered. We can pass ideas around all day, but we have no idea if any of them will work without further experimentation.

As an experiment, I propose that we should try commanding a golem to do something after fashioning it.

[RAM]

We could probably do some industrial-scale fishing to gather vitality...

P.S.
 I want to go into the mountains and make friends with the giants and fairies...

[lockman766]

Shifting off of golems for a moment. Necromancers can manipulate their vitality, and the vitality of others effectively making them able to rip the life from people. What if we can also sustain life make people healthier, extend someones life span, heal wounds. If we could we would be able to keep up a disguise as life mage for quite a long time.   

[Deep Waters]

Command Undead appears to work by giving you awareness of a zombie/golem, and allowing you to control them as if they are you, to an extent- control through empathy, I suppose. And we did attempt to command it, actually, at least with the spell, which allowed us to see through its "eyes"; however, since all we had given it were eyes, that was all we could do. I did not say that a golem wouldn't be commandable, in any case, or at that wasn't what I meant. What I meant was that we don't know if it's possible to, say, give a zombie/golem an order using the spell and then ending the spell, if the order would remain in place. Computers don't obey the imperatives of programs that are no longer there. On the other hand, it's true that we haven't tried to give golems intelligence.

As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?

[monk12]

What I meant was that we don't know if it's possible to, say, give a zombie/golem an order using the spell and then ending the spell, if the order would remain in place. Computers don't obey the imperatives of programs that are no longer there. On the other hand, it's true that we haven't tried to give golems intelligence.

With one final thought, you order the zombie to walk in circles, then break off the mental contact. The zombie obediently continues to circle on your floor- placing a shoe in its path causes it to move the center of its circle a bit to the left before continuing with its task.

From the bit with the crayfish when you first learned Command Undead. I'll just reiterate that each part is linked from the OP, for people who want the context to the above quote (or want to look up anything else for that matter.) I can neither confirm nor deny that this spell works differently when cast on Golems than it does on Zombies. Something to look into.

For the record, I'm also working REALLY hard not to go all Socratic on this thread. I'd rather pose the interesting questions through gameplay, after all, and watching y'all labor under misapprehensions just makes the Eureka moment more satisfying anyway. Why yes, I am a jerk, why do you ask? You've certainly raised some good points, though.

[lockman766]

As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?

My guess would be they manipulate what's already there. Now let me base a theory off that assumption. Now life mages can't Resurrect people because when someone dies they have no vitality. What if a necromancer right as the person was killed put vitality into him then a life mage used that vitality to heal that person could we actually preform a Resurrection?

[Cellmonk]

As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?

My guess would be they manipulate what's already there. Now let me base a theory off that assumption. Now life mages can't Resurrect people because when someone dies they have no vitality. What if a necromancer right as the person was killed put vitality into him then a life mage used that vitality to heal that person could we actually preform a Resurrection?

I like this train of thought. Maybe that applies to Golems too. A life mage might be better able to sculpt a Golem's vitality into something usefull, while we provide the raw material.

[Deep Waters]

As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?

My guess would be they manipulate what's already there. Now let me base a theory off that assumption. Now life mages can't Resurrect people because when someone dies they have no vitality. What if a necromancer right as the person was killed put vitality into him then a life mage used that vitality to heal that person could we actually preform a Resurrection?

I like this train of thought. Maybe that applies to Golems too. A life mage might be better able to sculpt a Golem's vitality into something usefull, while we provide the raw material.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What! What could possibly be possessing you to hare off into a warzone!?!

...oh, be careful, you stubborn fool. Just be careful.

[*snip*]impulsively give Elana a big bear hug. She stiffens in surprise for a moment before hugging you back fiercely. After a long moment, you separate, and exit the apartment.

Hm. Elana's showing an inordinate amount of concern for someone I have a feeling we haven't seen in a long time (how long does it take for an elf to finish their novitiate? It was about that long, right? For that matter, how old are we, exactly? I don't recall any mention of our age), even if we recently got back in touch. She may be a friend and former lover, but it seemed as if the break-up was... not pleasant. Especially if it precipitated such a long period of no-contact. In other words, Elana may still have feelings for our lovely necro-elf, which makes the romantic in me swoon with delight. :3 If so, it's unlikely that anything will come of it for various reasons, though I hope we'll at least see her again someday. I doubt romance of any kind, at any time, and with Elana or anyone else will enter this thread, but more exploration into our past, no matter how boring compared to our probable future, would be interesting, I think.

^^^^^^^^thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis