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Author Topic: You are a Necromancer! Chapter 2-36 Decisions, Decisions  (Read 680783 times)

GlyphGryph

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #840 on: March 21, 2012, 01:25:31 am »

Get a double job as a slaughterhouse/Butcher - quick, efficient way to get vitality, work for free.
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Ehndras

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #841 on: March 21, 2012, 01:30:17 am »

That's... In interesting idea.

Rather, Hunter/Butcher. I think proper hunting training would be quite goo....

I wonder... Could one infuse arrows with magic, creating more destructive weapons?

Of course, this would come much later, but the idea that you could infuse your arrows or bow with magic is quite interesting.

"The flaming Bow of Justice pierces the undead monstrocity's putrid flesh before exploding in a shower of gore!
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Quote from: Yoink
You're never too old to enjoy flying body parts.  
Quote from: Vector
Ehndras, you are the prettiest man I have ever seen
Quote from: Dorsidwarf
"I am a member of Earth. I enjoy to drink the water. In Earth we have an internal skeleton."

GlyphGryph

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #842 on: March 21, 2012, 09:56:39 am »

Shooting golems! :P
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Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #843 on: March 21, 2012, 02:46:43 pm »

 
Get a double job as a slaughterhouse/Butcher - quick, efficient way to get vitality, work for free.

Hmmm... I don't know. Why become a butcher when we're already a perfectly good fisher(wo)man? There's no reason for us to learn how to become butchers or hunters as far as I can see. Well, unless Omo leaves, but I think we'd have bigger problems then. Besides, assuming you want us to drain the vitality from the soon-to-be slaughtered animals (I can't imagine what else you could mean), while we know that eating things affected by necromancy doesn't appearin to have side effects, it might be different for people who aren't, y'know, elven necromancers. Even if it isn't, there's no telling what kind of long-term effects necromantic magic like that can have. It's probably not going to do anything, but do we want to risk that?

Plus, I don't know about you, but having someone who raises the dead in their spare time handle my food isn't exactly conducive to my appetite. 8S
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

GlyphGryph

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #844 on: March 21, 2012, 02:50:04 pm »

Well, obviously we'll have to test it.

But a cow probably has a lot more vitality than a fish.
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Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #845 on: March 21, 2012, 03:56:09 pm »

Probably, although it did take the same amount of mana to raise a fish and an ant, so I don't think we should assume anything based on mass. After all, a fish is just as alive as a cow, or an ant, or a tree. That should definitely be considered on the experiment list, though, especially before we decide any, ah, career changes. ;D
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

Ehndras

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #846 on: March 21, 2012, 04:02:14 pm »

Also, fish zombies suck. With animals and animal parts, we can raised proper scouts, attack dog/pigs, horses, and such.


WILDLIFE, ATTAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
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Quote from: Yoink
You're never too old to enjoy flying body parts.  
Quote from: Vector
Ehndras, you are the prettiest man I have ever seen
Quote from: Dorsidwarf
"I am a member of Earth. I enjoy to drink the water. In Earth we have an internal skeleton."

Grek

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #847 on: March 21, 2012, 04:06:13 pm »

I'm not really sure why people think there's a moral issue inherent to necromancy. Raising zombies requires mana and a dead body. Raising golems requires vitality. As long as we refrain from killing people to get the dead bodies or the vitality, we're in the clear morally speaking. The only people that are going to object to us animating rope golems and undead trees are the same sort of people that would object to any necromancy at all. As long as we can live with ourselves, the rest of the world can stuff it.
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racnor

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #848 on: March 21, 2012, 04:42:41 pm »

A lot of the tension between elves and the other races (at least in DF) comes from their occasional cannibalism of the fallen. An elf "draining" something or "utilizing" a dead body would really freak humans and dwarves out. If we REALLY need vitality then we might be able to beg some off Omo, or if we can disperse the spell between several targets, we can just go fishing, or zap a pasture and pull a small amount of vitality from each animal. Remember, we're trying to restore necromancy's image here.
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Compromise position: Turn the mother bear, train the babies to use pyromancy and then eat Alice.
Right, the !!☼ARMCHAIR☼!!. I forgot.

Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #849 on: March 21, 2012, 04:43:15 pm »

I'm not really sure why people think there's a moral issue inherent to necromancy. Raising zombies requires mana and a dead body. Raising golems requires vitality. As long as we refrain from killing people to get the dead bodies or the vitality, we're in the clear morally speaking. The only people that are going to object to us animating rope golems and undead trees are the same sort of people that would object to any necromancy at all. As long as we can live with ourselves, the rest of the world can stuff it.

I think it has something to do with the desecration of the dead. Which I can understand; seeing the decaying face of someone you know on the head of a mindless shambling undead... creature... isn't exactly a pleasant idea, and at the very least it's easy to apply that image to every corpse. Not to mention the possible religious implications- many cultures teach respect for the dead and by association their bodies as a matter of course; some even associate continued well-being in the afterlife with the condition of a person's former body (which is why the Egyptians, among other cvilizations, practiced mummification). Reanimating someone's body in order to use them as servants and cannon fodder isn't exactly respect, now is it? You might then argue that we can just use animals and maybe plants, but people can get very attached to their pets and their gardens, in some cases as much as or even more than to people.

Also, the "rest of the world" is out to get us right now just for being a necromancer; if we don't show that we're different in some way (and restoring the Elven homeland will help, but won't cut it in the long run; it's easier for people to say we're doing it for a selfish reason than to accept we might be trying to do good), the only thing we'll be able to do without getting ourselves killed is retreat into hermitude, and unless we want to deal with a GAME OVER the only thing we'll be able to do after that is experiment with our powers and someday reemerge at the head of a massive horde of superpowered zombies and golems. While that sounds pretty awesome, I find the idea of being the unlikely anti-hero more interesting than just being a villain like everyone else.

In other words, yeah, sure we can give the world two giant middle fingers and do whatever the hell we want, but that won't make for a very interesting game in the long run.

EDIT: What racnor said. Although, these elves seem to be just as horrified by the idea of "utilizing" dead bodies as humans and dwarves would be (see our discussions with Elana for details) and considering our friendship with the human empire of Thrimesdur, I think we can assume that cannibalistic elves are not part of this setting. Also, mass steal vitality FTW! :P
EDIT2: Hm. Reread the posts and checked the notable figures tab. It appears our mother is a Sage, or at least she was in the beginning. Does that mean she's both a Mage and a Sage? A magesage? Or a sagemage? Monk, if I may: how knowledgeable (as a Sage) and how powerful (as a mage) is she? For the sake of relativity, can you compare her to Pevo and and Ari?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 04:54:23 pm by Deep Waters »
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

Grek

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #850 on: March 21, 2012, 05:16:32 pm »

Our mum's a Mage, not a Sage. The Sage thing was explained to be a typo several pages back.

As for the whole desecration of corpses thing, the key is that we are not planning to do that. So far, we've only revived A] wild bugs and fish and B] plants. At no point have we revived any person, or anyone's pet, or anything that anyone else owns or even cares about. Just wild animals (which looked perfectly normal!) and trees. An elven necromancer that animates dead trees is basically the least offensive-to-the-sensibilities necromancer there is.

So, that said, let's wait until someone actually accuses us of being evil before trying to justify ourselves.
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bombzero

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #851 on: March 21, 2012, 05:35:15 pm »

Yes, the issue is not that necromancy itself is inherently evil, its that other necromancers have primarily raised corpses, and burial is sacred in this world by all accounts we have seen.

i once again must stress that dwarfs, while they are probably easy to anger, may be receptive to a necromancer who DOES NOT want to raise corpses, and wants to defeat the other 'evil' necromancers with an army of golems. im betting anything dwarfs know how to make metal golems seeing as how they were allied with necromancers, and if not im sure we can figure it out and tell them how.

morality: set, done, no corpses were raised in the making of this golem, no graves disturbed, no people upset.
payment: if we can 'program' golem to follow someone else (pending experimentation) offer to leave a few golems for the dwarves as guards. they would probably appreciate some large metal statues as guards.
usefullness: excessively high, animated metal machines would be unabashed by a crowd of fleshy zombies wielding weapons, and the terror factor for the other necromancers, (who by reports have not done much with golems) would probably be sufficiently high.



as for current issues, the state of affairs in cities sound risky, but we need more magical knowledge to have any hope of surviving, we lack physical power, we lack weapon training beyond a bow, and were basically broke.
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Deep Waters

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #852 on: March 21, 2012, 05:57:18 pm »

Our mum's a Mage, not a Sage. The Sage thing was explained to be a typo several pages back.

As for the whole desecration of corpses thing, the key is that we are not planning to do that. So far, we've only revived A] wild bugs and fish and B] plants. At no point have we revived any person, or anyone's pet, or anything that anyone else owns or even cares about. Just wild animals (which looked perfectly normal!) and trees. An elven necromancer that animates dead trees is basically the least offensive-to-the-sensibilities necromancer there is.

So, that said, let's wait until someone actually accuses us of being evil before trying to justify ourselves.

I know. I was just trying to explain the moral issues associated with necromancy in general, not suggest that we are doing nor plan on doing any of it. Although the "tree" part may be disputable, at least to DF elves. :P As for the sage/mage mother thing, thank you for the explanation. Though I'd still like to know our mother's power levels, mostly for reference. I suppose it'd be useful to know if things go wrong with Omo and he goes back to warn the Council, but I'd rather not think of it in those terms.  :-\

While it'd be nice if we could say that, unfortunately, everyone and their mother has already accused us of being evil. I'm a DnD enthusiast. If someone accuses all DnD enthusiasts of being Satan worshipers, they're accusing me of being a Satan worshiper. I'm an Asian-American. If someone accuses all Asian-Americans of being Communist heathens out to take over all of America, they're accusing me of being a Communist heathen out to take over all of America. Just because they haven't said it to my face doesn't mean the accusation isn't directed towards me. And we're not justifying ourselves. We're trying to keep from having to be justified in the first place. After all, no one knows that golems (at least, our golems) are necromantic in nature. No one really needs to know, either, though I agree that we should tell Omo (he deserves that much) and that we should reveal our identity after establishing a reputation for good deeds.

Yes, the issue is not that necromancy itself is inherently evil, its that other necromancers have primarily raised corpses, and burial is sacred in this world by all accounts we have seen.

i once again must stress that dwarfs, while they are probably easy to anger, may be receptive to a necromancer who DOES NOT want to raise corpses, and wants to defeat the other 'evil' necromancers with an army of golems. im betting anything dwarfs know how to make metal golems seeing as how they were allied with necromancers, and if not im sure we can figure it out and tell them how.

morality: set, done, no corpses were raised in the making of this golem, no graves disturbed, no people upset.
payment: if we can 'program' golem to follow someone else (pending experimentation) offer to leave a few golems for the dwarves as guards. they would probably appreciate some large metal statues as guards.
usefullness: excessively high, animated metal machines would be unabashed by a crowd of fleshy zombies wielding weapons, and the terror factor for the other necromancers, (who by reports have not done much with golems) would probably be sufficiently high.



as for current issues, the state of affairs in cities sound risky, but we need more magical knowledge to have any hope of surviving, we lack physical power, we lack weapon training beyond a bow, and were basically broke.

YES! SOMEONE WHO GETS WHAT I MEAN! ^happyface^

I'd have to discount burial, at least in regards to the Elves (who cremate their dead) but that's definitely true of the humans of Thrimesdur. (Which is ironic, since 'Thrimesdur' apparently means "The Cremated Empire". :P) Which probably explains a little of why the humans of the Jeweled Coast are more amenable to alliance with a necromancer than the Elves or the humans of Thrimesdur- they send their dead off into the sea, where it's rather difficult to retrieve them. Plus, whenever I try to imagine a "sea burial", I keep coming up with a Viking funeral. <<;

We won't get to the Dwarves for a long time, and I doubt they'll have the same taboos associated with necromancy as the humans and elves (they were the Golgothan's allies at first, after all, and they didn't have nearly the same amount of devastation wrought upon them as the other races did, especially the Elves and the Fire Giants) but once we do, an alliance with them would be of paramount importance- especially if we plan on utilizing more golems than reanimated corpses in our army, but even if we don't plan on using golems at all I bet there are plenty of things we could learn from them. At the very least we could attempt to negotiate their assistance against the other necromancers.

And yes, metal golems definitely trump any number of zombie hordes. :P The only problem I could foresee is whether a golem needs fuel or something like fuel; we haven't exactly kept our golems for a long period of time. In fact, we know a lot more about undead raising than golems, and that's saying a lot. That whole strange episode after we 'killed' Ropey (that rope doll) is definitely alarming in its possible implications.
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[23:14:34] <GameMaster> And so (...) a one-armed dwarf and a mage wearing a blanket walk into a tomb.
[23:14:42] <GameMaster> Sadly, that isn't a joke.

[20:42:03] <HailFire> our wizard tower just got smoked by projectile cats from space

lockman766

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #853 on: March 21, 2012, 06:11:01 pm »

It's nice to see this thread back in full swing with philosophical debates again.
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Cellmonk

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Re: You are a Necromancer! Part 25
« Reply #854 on: March 21, 2012, 06:39:47 pm »

I wonder if there are any surgeons around who can't afford a heart-lung machine for their more serious heart defects.

we might make a little money on the side....

on a serious note, I'm all for visiting the Dwarves. I love Dwarves. And maybe, just maybe, they will love us!
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