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[bombzero]

This could also be a way to make nigh-invincible golems later on.

speaking of golems, if dwarves have past experience with necromancy, think they would be privy to the idea of making us a golem? especially if we intend to use it to crush the 'evil' necromancers?

[Deep Waters]

Golgothans were elves.

Yeah, that was my first thought too, but the more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense. One, Pevo said that the Dwarves had a strong alliance with the Golgothans, but not Elves. Two, we Elves already have Life, and we once had Air. Wouldn't having control over three different "elements" be a little overpowered? No, I think it'll be something much less predictable.

Which reminds me: there's so little we know about your universe, Monk, even just the Elves. I know that it was said that Elena's strawberry blonde hair was unusual for an elf, but what is the usual, exactly? I assumed brown, maybe black,  but then I remembered those violet-haired elves in d20 Modern and decided that was a bad idea. In fact, let's cover all our bases here: hair colors, hair styles, skin color, height, build, clothing styles, housing, cuisine, religious customs, weaponry- everything you've got, now if possible, later if necessary. The physical features I'd like at least- I've decided that I want to do a whole DF profile on Nym, and that's somewhat necessary.

I think it'd be nice if you added some little quirks to Nym. Nothing that would impact the plot or prevent us from getting her to do something we want her to do (maybe less likely or more difficult, but not impossible), but something that makes her feel more like a character in her own right rather than just a instrument through which we explore your world. That'll make us less likely to suggest she do something stupid, since we'll get more attached to her. Mention a favorite food, or some not-so-favorite foods. General likes and dislikes are also good. Maybe things that she fears (other than being found out as a Nacromancer and dying, of course), that disgust her or creep her out.

Conversely, make her indifferent to or even fascinated by things others are revolted by. Of course, the whole "Necromancer" thing is a given- corpses aren't exactly pretty, y'know. Ha, imagine a necromancer that throws up or faints at the sight of dead bodies! But Nym is already way beyond that with the whole fishing thing (she did gut one herself, after all) and besides, we already have enough problems without being our own worst enemies here. Nym did recover quickly from finding out that she was a Necromancer, though, and was very quick to start experimentation- while this is obviously the result of the fact that this is essentially a collaborative RP that's focused on experimentation,  it could easily be turned into a personality trait, one that others might draw attention to- something like "You've never been easy to rattle" or "You're a curious person, aren't you?"

Have Nym or Omo reminisce about their childhood, something like "You know, this is like that one time when..." or "Hey, remember when..." and so on. These things don't take up much time or space, but they do wonders for immersion. Or, you could go the exact opposite route and incorporate them into the plot. Perhaps have a community suggestion come to Nym in the form of a childhood memory. For example, the bearstraction idea (which looks like it's not going to work, but it's just an example) could come about from a memory of when Omo stole honey from a hive and accidentally caused a bear to chase him across the entire town, destroying everything as they went, until Omo leaped into a river. That could also cause a nickname to come about- another good way to characterize.

I mentioned personality traits earlier, but I've notice that it seems as if Nym has, in fact, changed her usual way of doing things, a fact which I think Pevo and Elana commented on- but not Omo, your best friend? That is very odd. It doesn't sound like we were much of an initiator, or a planner, or really anything but a lazy bum before all of this. (I can relate. ) Why hasn't Omo, or our mother for that matter, questioned this, or even said anything all? I can imagine that we've always been inquisitive, if not about the same things we're displaying an interest in now, but these implied changes to our basic nature are a little harder to rationalize. Something as simple as an odd look and a quiet "You've changed" would be enough. All little things really, but they add up, believe me.

EDIT: Goddamn "text correction". Sometimes I hate phones. <<; Also, now that I've slept on it for a night, I've realized that I accidentally shifted into lecture mode when I was initially just offering one suggestion. I really need to stop doing that. --' Also, these suggestions have nothing to do with my desire to create a profile for Nym and the fact that some of them are required to do so. Nope. Nothing at all. ^shifty eyes^

[EveryZig]

No, I think it'll be something much less predictable.

Obviously Gorgothans are kobolds.
(Though actually goblins/orcs would be more likely.)

[GlyphGryph]

o______o

[Deep Waters]

o______o

Er... is that for me? Or the idea that the master necromancer army that nearly conquered the world (at least the part we know about) and still terrifies it today were kobolds?

[GlyphGryph]

That's for this being on the third page. I want an update.

[Deep Waters]

Ah, so it is me. After all, my posts pretty much take up at least a page all by themselves. In any case, I don't think we've all come to a decision on how we're going to jump the border yet. (And if any of you make a joke about Mexico your internets are so getting revoked.) Speaking of which, wasn't there another option? Something about going north or south to avoid the mass of Rangers next to the river, but having to dodge a bunch of patrols along the way? Let me check...

Wait. WAIT A MINUTE HERE. I just went back to the first post in order to get to Part 25 and check exactly what's it said, and while the page was loading I started rereading that first post. I can't believe anyone mentioned this, but if they did and I just skipped over it somehow, well, just let me have my moment here- anyways, you remember the character options we had? Where we could be an Elf from of Yicefalo (which we are), a human from Thrimesdur or a human from the Jeweled Coasts? Is this ringing any bells?! GODDAMMIT WE COULD'VE BEEN A PIRATE KING/QUEEN! *RAEGRAEGRAEGRAEGRAAAAAAAAEG*

Okay, okay, calm, I am calm. *deep breaths*

...Anyways. I took another gander at that post (apparently I didn't read it very thoroughly the first time through, since a lot of that information was pretty new to me) and it seems we can either try to sneak past the rangers, go north and swim/ford it, go south and wave down a boat, or go even more south until we hit another town. I'm not sure why we'd even want to hit another town (isn't that something we should avoid, Omo, with the whole you're-deserting-and-I'm-leaving-even-though-I-explicitly-don't-have-the-Council's-permission and mages-can-communicate-with-each-other-across-miles thing? Can you clarify this, Monk?), so that's a bust. Waving down a boat seems to be a bit of a gamble, but more likely than being able to sneak past/trick a bunch of sharp-eared (and possibly trigger-happy) Rangers. Going north and attempting to swim/ford it seems like the best idea. (I'm sure that the width of the Great River in that map is exaggerated. *covers head and waits for irony to happen*) How far north can we go, anyways? Would we still be risking getting caught by the Rangers patrolling Larathor (not just a random Ranger patrol; that's pretty much pure luck anyways, even with Omo there), and if so, how risky is it compared to trying to run it?

As for actual methods, well, I can't think of anything that hasn't been suggested already. Although, depending on the answers to the questions above, we may be able to avoid the more... elaborate ones.

EDIT: Hm. Just reread all the experiments we plan on doing and noticed that one of them is infusing a crystal with vitality. I get the feeling that will just make another golem, but if we put mana in the crystal it'll probably make for some interesting results. Who knows, it may be the key to making golems capable of movement. Or maybe we'll be able to create golems that can cast magic!

[Draigh]

Just two cents from a new person here:

The most people live to the south, the north seems rather uninhabited. Any army threat, with equal increased patrols would then thus be at the south and at the common routes. Going north is also not expected as a way to leave the elven forests. It would also make sure that You have enough time to flee if a certain Omo decides that he rather not travel with a budding Necromancer and decides to move away and inform some people of the third Necromancer that just happened to pop up.
As such I would suggest ignoring the whole river and it's crossings and move north. Then cross through the lower mountain areas and follow that towards the cursed lands. The big undead army is probably ravaging the southern parth.

And yes, I noticed the similarities between starting choices and current active necromancers. Then again, I read the whole threat this past weekend from start to finish. Another thing that I noticed... They have been necromancing longer than you. So they have a headstart in experience, and clearly made all the wrong choices. Learn from their mistakes and make a true difference in the world, not be just another evil necromancer. ;-)

As for the dead bodies versus golem debate that flares up now and again:
A golem is made from simple matter. If not taking into account the source of activation, that makes it more desirable than dead bodies. For example Elana already called it desecration, while You carefully used the term 'utilize'. Animation of a golem would not be considered a desecration, perhaps still strange and worrysome but less so.
As for the source of activation, has anyone been thinking about perhaps using a bit of your own vitality to activate the golem? You can heal yourself over time and it would prove that you do not drain the soul of something when you drain their vitality. It would also be more accepted if you can prove that you do not drain others, but make it from your own sacrifice.
And hey.. if you get the hang of it, you might offer Omo to make him a golem companion for the hunt and bind it to his blood (and try to make it listen to him while you are at it). After all, nothing immoral about an animation made from a free offer of vitality and some local clay, wood and/or stone.

As for the animation part and making it useful: I think the trick is simply 'wanting' it to work like that.
If you make a rope doll and WANT it to be able to see it's surroundings, it gets energy eyes.
If you WANT the rope doll to be able to walk around, it will get energy-enabled walking legs.
If you WANT it to be semi-sentient, you'll probably get chucky. Just be careful what you wish for. I would insert a clause of "protect and obey Nym and Omo, in that order."

[Deep Waters]

Part of the reason why we're going to Thrimesdur (at least from what I could divine) is that Thrimesdur is an ancient empire with very ancient libraries that have a lot very, very ancient books. Short of the dwarves (who we'll only be able to contact after we reach the Elven homeland, if then), those libraries are the best shot we have at finding out more about our magic. Experimentation is well and good, but it takes a long time to learn through trial and error, and necromancy doesn't really leave that much room for error. We've been lucky so far with our mistakes, but if we don't figure out what the hell we're doing soon we're going to screw something up beyond saving. However, if we're focusing just on avoiding Thrimesdur's necromancer, either the north or the south could be argued. The south is more likely to be highly populated due to the oceans and rivers (I don't trust the map to tell me where people are most concentrated, but I do trust historical trends), but I don't think the Thrimesdur necromancer is powerful enough to tackle the big cities quite yet- if they were, we'd never have a chance against them, and neither would the Elves. They're much more likely to be terrorizing the countryside and smaller cities. According to our mother, however, in spite of that, people are apparently rioting in the streets in Thrimesdur, and we might not want to get in the middle of that. Plus, that kind of hysteria isn't really conducive to foreigners. Us being Elves (who have more reason to hate necromancers as a race than any other individual) might help us along, but people driven by pure blind terror aren't exactly known for their rationality- they might turn against us just for being outsiders.

I'd personally vote for going south- I think that we'd be much better equipped for escaping a panicked mob than a necromancer that's many orders above us in skill, and even if we weren't, the possibility of being able to learn more about necromancy is worth chancing it. (However, and I don't know Monk well enough to say this, but if I know the DM mindset, and believe me I do, the moment we enter such a city one of the residents will run by screaming "BY THE FAITHS THEY'VE SET THE GREAT LIBRARY ON FIRE!" ...I'd certainly do it. Your reactions would be too interesting and potentially amusing to resist. ) Of course, any cities that may be in the north do have two advantages: one, they're closer to the Elven homeland (though I think we should learn a lot more before we even think about heading over there- what level are we? Two? Three? Surely not enough to tackle the creatures that practically destroyed Elf civilization as was known at the time!) and they are in closer proximity to where the Golgothans once lived (I think that they lived in the north?), so it's very likely that there are texts related to them and their necromantic feats in the libraries there. Second-hand accounts are better than nothing, I suppose.

However, even if we ignore our need for more knowledge and avoid settlements entirely, trusting our Elf-y senses to warn us of the approach of a shambling horde of the undead, we still have one problem: Omo may be a Ranger, but he's used to the forests of Yicelafo, which have abundant edible plants and animals. I don't think he's ever been outside of Yicelafo, and he may not be familiar with the edibles of the mountains or Thrimesdur in general, or even how to survive in the cold- and I wouldn't count on him having thought that far ahead, either.

No matter our choice, however, we have to keep in mind that we can't be totally sure of the accuracy of that map. Even if we don't metagame and ignore the fact that Monk himself said that it was a rough estimate, most maps before the age of satellites, and especially maps made in the technological age equivalent to the one this world is in, were appallingly inaccurate. Just google ancient maps of the new world. Pretty, and they get the basic shapes (most of the time), but they can be miles and miles off. In other words- we probably shouldn't take the map as gospel.

As for the whole undead vs. golem thing, draining your own vitality would indeed eliminate the moral question, but it would also handicap us tremendously, perhaps fatally so- and I don't mean accidentally overdrawing ourselves. Quality is well and good, but even ten top-trained commandos in powered combat armor equipped with nuclear hand grenades would eventually fall to a million mooks in bubble wrap equipped with inflatable hammers. I suppose it depends on how far we're willing to go for our principles.

[racnor]

I think the order wizards will be able to keep the people in check, especially if they feel that their precious libraries are in danger. Selling mana to the wizards would thus provide us with money(so no food problems), library access and suggestions for good reading material, and safety from the angry mobs.

[Ehndras]

Good idea, actually! Selling mana potions to the wizards is definitely a great idea as they have much bigger worries than sitting around brewing mana potions.

[Deep Waters]

I think the order wizards will be able to keep the people in check, especially if they feel that their precious libraries are in danger. Selling mana to the wizards would thus provide us with money(so no food problems), library access and suggestions for good reading material, and safety from the angry mobs.

Hmm... you have a point there; I hadn't thought of the Order wizards. They would look down on that sort of thing, wouldn't they? And it is entirely possible our mother was exaggerating, whether knowingly or unknowingly- rumors do have a way of getting out of hand, but our mother also had a vested interest in discouraging us in this endeavor. I think it could go either way, really.

I think someone came up with the idea of selling the wizards potions before, but asking them for reading suggestions is one I haven't heard, and a very good idea besides. Of course, we have to get to a city first.

[Draigh]

As for the whole undead vs. golem thing, draining your own vitality would indeed eliminate the moral question, but it would also handicap us tremendously, perhaps fatally so- and I don't mean accidentally overdrawing ourselves. Quality is well and good, but even ten top-trained commandos in powered combat armor equipped with nuclear hand grenades would eventually fall to a million mooks in bubble wrap equipped with inflatable hammers. I suppose it depends on how far we're willing to go for our principles.

Knowing how to create a golem from your own vitality and being able to demonstrate thus to questioning minds like Omo or Order Wizards... is something different then exclusively making golems that way. ;-)
You want them to believe that you are doing it all from your own vitality. That you borrow a bit extra now and then... is something they don't need to know.

And as for the route... closer to the mountains the river will be easier to cross as it has not had time to grow. We can go back south after the river crossing, elven patrols and informing Omo.

[Ancre]

Knowing how to create a golem from your own vitality and being able to demonstrate thus to questioning minds like Omo or Order Wizards... is something different then exclusively making golems that way. ;-)
You want them to believe that you are doing it all from your own vitality. That you borrow a bit extra now and then... is something they don't need to know.

Yes, but that's lying. We want others to think we're nice and trustworthy ; deceiving them will only hurt us in the long run, since necromancy isn't highly regarded anyways. A "lite" version of necromancy will not convince people on its own, so we have to remain honest and morally good. In fact, I'd even say we have to be extra-good, heroically good, rather than just normal good, since necromancy is such a huge social handicap to begin with.

[Draigh]

True
But that is a choice for a later time.
And I rather give a little lie about only using my own vitality to animate a golem, than not lie and raise someone's grandma or grandpa instead. The latter is certainly not forgiven, while the former might, if you act cautiously with where you get your vitality from (like trees and animals).

And if you want to be heroicly good, then using your own lifeforce alone would be the way to go anyway. Thus then it won't be lying anymore.

At the least it would be interesting information about the amount of vitality you can channel into a golem, and how effective it would be. My guess is that the transferrate would be a lot more beneficial than the current 3 to 1 rate.