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[Parisbre56]

Letting the construct loose and following it would be probably be best, since it's still carrying Omo's soul around and probably knows where it's going.

One problem with that is that the connection with the golem controller has been severed, so the golem is completely inert now. That doesn't mean we can't go towards the location it was heading towards or the location it came from and hope for further guidance.

I want to keep Omo in one place. Honestly, we are in it pretty deep, confessing to Eko is kinf of tempting, especially to a young elf who may have just gotten their best friend killed...

True, we could play the "young clueless girl that's afraid and just wants to help but lacks a teacher and ends up getting hunted by necromancers and other humans alike". Actually, now that I think about it, there's no need to play the part, since we actually are a young clueless girl that's afraid and just wants to help but lacks a teacher and ends up getting hunted by necromancers and other humans alike.

[LordPorkins]

Yah, but if we pretend to be submissive and all, M and Fela will be on us like wild dogs. I say we adct interested, ask a few questions, like how to help Omo and how Golems work, but decline to meet M till the next night. So, the next day, tell Eko whats what, and then run to the nearest healer. See if theres anyone who can "dream-walk" like Fela who ISNT a manipulative little bugger. Than have them come into your dream with you for support. Barring that, have Eko probe your thoughts when your sleeping and have some sort of way to signal him to wake you up. I dont want us to be getting any fell moods.

[LordPorkins]

All Hail Buddycus, The True Lord of Death

[LordPorkins]

Edit: Sorry, made stupid comment

[Baffler]

Letting the construct loose and following it would be probably be best, since it's still carrying Omo's soul around and probably knows where it's going.

One problem with that is that the connection with the golem controller has been severed, so the golem is completely inert now. That doesn't mean we can't go towards the location it was heading towards or the location it came from and hope for further guidance.

Ah, right. We can command it now right? We'll just have it follow us along, or go to that tree if it 'remembers' where it is.

Still, ending the conversation by thanking Fale but telling him aren't ready to make a decision yet is probably the way to go here. He is being manipulative, but he does seem to want to bring us around rather than do us harm. He even raises some valid points. But it's too sketchy to get involved with before we learn more about the situation IMO. Whatever controlled the construct is probably just as able to help us out as M, with the construct collecting souls and returning them it's probably using them for something and is probably rather good at messing with them after who knows how many years of doing it. It also can't possibly be as much of a threat as the God of Death.

[crazyabe]

ptw

[LordPorkins]

Guys, lets worry about the construct later. We need to focus on extracting ourselves from the dream WITHOUT pissing off M or Fale. I mean, if they decide to mess with us now we wont be able to do shite about the construct or Omo. Lets focus on the imminent threat.

P.s. The constructs probably from the necromancer we havent met

[syvarris]

No, we're pretty safe as long as we don't do anything stupid.  Buddy said that "[M] can't keep [us] from [Buddy] forever", which implies that we'll end up with Buddy if we just wait.  Besides that, Fale has shown a vested interest in us and our well-being; It would take some very solid proof that we won't help Fale before it decides to kill us.  Also, even if we do exit the dream safely (Are we even capable of leaving on our own initiative?), Fale can just start a new one later, unless Eko can make a dream-protection ward.

I still want to stay and ask Fale more about soul crafting, but I can't think of any way to ask an immediately-useful question without making it obvious that we're messing with a person's soul.  Maybe we could ask something about golem-crafting instead?  Or about dream-crafting?  Do we have any safe stories to trade?

[Baffler]

A story about our day in the human walled town, maybe. It'd tell him we were in Thrimesdur, but he already knows that doesn't he? Or possibly about Pevo teaching us how to make the mana potions, and how we sold them to the merchant. We'd have to avoid mentioning the artifact, but needing money for the journey was a big part of it as well.

[LordPorkins]

@PegasusUnicornKitten  i kniw they can start the dream again next night, but im saying we ask them for time to think it over. The next day we tell Eko who we are, then ask him about information about dreams. Since hes a prophet/seer/diviner he should have decent knowledge about how this works. Questions could be:
Do items i am holding gain Dream-Representations? Can i use them? How can i influence my dreams? Is the Invader in control (Like Inception) or can i, by conciously resisting, affect things in my favor (Evil Within) How much damage can be done to my mind and ohysical body in this dream state?

If enough of these are answered so that we have a chance of resisting, then i say go back into the dreamscape. If Eko's like "Yah, your screwed" Have him make a dream-ward.

[syvarris]

@Stealthy Swine
Huh.  I've been using this avatar and personal text for over five years, yet this is the first time I've ever been called that.

I see your point that we can just learn more in future dreameetings, after we've researched how safe they are, but I still feel like we should take advantage of this opportunity.  What we learn here could very well be the difference between life or death for Omo.  Also, while we can't be sure that we can avoid more dreameetings, we also can't be sure that we'll have any more at all; Buddy may shield us from them, and Buddy also might not be able to teach us necromancy.

I vote that we stay long enough to ask one more question: What level of intelligence could we grant a golem, by creating its unolnimar, and what are the limitations--will a golem always come out seeming like an artificial personality or something?  If (and only if) Fale asks for another question about us before it answers, then we can trade the story about how we learned potion making.  While telling the story, do not specify our teacher's name, our teacher's role, where our teacher lived, or the area this took place in.  Furthermore, try to mention how one of our motives was to see if we could learn from the process and apply some of our knowledge to working with vitality (but don't directly ask a question--Fish for free answers!).

This should hopefully trade safe information for very useful knowledge (how golem minds work, which is probably what the Curse is), and gives us a valuable alibi for our previous questions--we're messing with golems, and trying to imbue them with intelligence.  I'm tempted to outright say that, and craft details for an entire false story, but I'm afraid actual bluffs will make Nym fail a skill check and make Fale distrust us.  Also, if we're lucky, Fale might give us extra information about how moving vitality works--maybe our old idea about making healing potions is possible.

Also:

Spoiler: Vote Tally (click to show/hide)

((Made this purely for my own curiousity, but I figure I might as well share.

I'm treating anything that seems like an action as an action, not just bolded things.  People seem to be bad at bolding.  This almost certainly isn't 100% accurate.))
Accept M's help: 1 vote (nomoetoe)
Don't accept M's help: 6 votes (XXXXYYYY, Andres, stabbymcstabstab, syvarris, ydeve, Baffler)
Pretend to accept help, but resist and try to learn something: 1 vote (Dustan Hache)
Veto above: 1 vote (syvarris)
Stall and pump for information: 4? votes (Angle, Ruludos, syvarris, LordPorkins?)
Listen for voice/Try to contact voice: 2 votes (Angle, Parisbre56)
"I just cannot accept a deity that I know so little of, you haven't even been consistent with its name.": 2 votes (RAM, syvarris)
Nah, we shouldn't just say we know he's been inconsistent, but we should use the other names he's used.: 2 votes (Descan, Baffler)
Veto above: 1 vote (syvarris)
Do not mention any variant of M's name: 1 vote (syvarris)
Ask about necromancy gods, and how to contact them ourself: 2 votes (ydeve, Parisbre56)
Escape/end conversation now: 3? votes (LordPorkins?, Parisbre56, Baffler)
In the morning, try to find the gnarled tree from the construct's memory. 1 vote (Baffler)

Question for other players: Exactly what should we do once we wake up?  There's been some talk about admitting our necromancy to Eko, talk about taking Omo to the tree, talk about fixing him here, talk about taking him to a healer, but precious few details, and little consensus.  There's a fairly equal split between those who want to leave the dream, and those who want to stay, so we should probably decide now.

My opinion is that Upon waking up, we should experiment with mimicing the soul sac movement tentacle... thing, and try to figure out if we could move Omo's soul safely.  Do not waste more than 4 MP trying this.  If we can move it... try to repair Omo.  If we can't, we explain to Eko that we don't know how to repair Omo, and then we ask for his advice and assistance.  At no point should we admit to being a necromancer.

Reading back, we have several serious problems that haven't been addressed: First, Eko said that the sanctuary he cast can physically damage necromancers that pass through it.  We can't leave until it naturally ends, which could take days.  Second, we apparently don't have food that Omo can eat, so we can't sit out here indefinitely, although people can go without food for a remarkably long period.  Third, we can't move the construct far, and it can't move itself very fast, so Omo's soul might be rooted to the spot.  Fourth, the position organs that the construct has probably mean that the curse knows exactly where we are, and might be sending a stronger force to attack us.

The first problem could be solved if we tell Eko we're a necromancer, but that is a very dangerous thing to do.  I doubt Eko would attack us immediately (he seems like a level-headed individual who thinks before acting), but he wouldn't have any great reason to trust us--This entire situation could conceivably have been engineered for us to get near the curse relatively safely, and kill/trap him and Omo.  Although, it's probably not a game-ending plan, because we should be able to kill Eko with one spell, relatively easily.

[LordPorkins]

Ok, when the theories become longer than the actual author posts, we officially need to move on. MONK!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?!?

...

...

...

Someone whos good at forums figure out what in urists name hes doing

Though to be fair, you do make some good points syvarris. Additionally, i like "stealthy swine" we are gonna get along just fine

However, Ekos claim that necromancers are damaged by these barriers is questionable. I mean, there hasnt been a necromancer in.... What, a thousand years? I doubt that the spell is still 100% effective. Obviously lets not test it, but still. If Fale can contact us through it, it stands to reason its not working properly. We are going to need to tell eko about our current.... Situation, as he might be the only one who can disable the sanctuary. If we ask him to take it down hes probably going to figure out somethings fishy. He seems pretty smart.

[LordPorkins]

P.s. Syvarris i vote pump for info then gtfo

[Gwythur]

Reading back, we have several serious problems that haven't been addressed: First, Eko said that the sanctuary he cast can physically damage necromancers that pass through it.  We can't leave until it naturally ends, which could take days.

This is not a problem.  We seem to be unaffected by Eko's sanctuary spell.  In fact, we have walked through his sanctuary before, when entering his temple.  Not only did we pass without incident, or even notice, monk12 confirmed there was no error in the storytelling.

Something weird is going on here. Eko claims his temple was protected by a Sanctuary, which should have prevented any necromancer from entering. Yet we entered just fine. So either Monk made a mistake, or some necromancers can pass unopposed through a Sanctuary wall.

I can confirm there was no error. The explanation for the discrepancy between what Eko said about his wards and what you observed in crossing them I leave to your powers of deduction.

I have a theory about this.  Eko explained that his sanctuary blocks people and creatures attuned to an element.

"Yes, basically. Those people with a strong affinity for an Element will be affected by wards; the stronger they are, the more intense the effects. This Sanctuary is a strong ward indeed; it reorders Elemental magics passing through it in such a way as to negate the energies of Death magic with precisely arranged patterns of Life and to actively disrupt and harm it with certain combinations of other Elements. If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."

In this same conversation, Eko points out that Elves, such as we are, are naturally attuned to Life magic.

"Yes, but not just zombies. Many natural creatures can be strongly aligned with an element; you Elves are almost all aligned with Life more strongly than any human, while Goblins are Chaos incarnate. Most creatures associated with Death aren't properly alive, like wraiths and wights and the like..."

So sanctuary works by blocking Death magic and those attuned to it with precise patterns of Life magic.  But, as an elf, our attunement to Life magic prevents those precise patterns from affecting us adversely.  Our magical aura may be enough in balance that Life spells designed to harm necromancers simply will not harm us.

Immunity to the countereffects of Life magic could make us one of the most dangerous necromancers ever, should we ever decide to take a darker path.  But I suspect that if we were to grow too strong in necromantic power, we would increase our affinity to Death magic, and our aura would no longer be balanced.

As a tangent to this, I believe that the mysterious voice we are getting a weak signal from in the background of the dream is some form of Life spirit, deity, or higher power, which is able to contact us because of our Elven affinity for Life .  I do not believe that Fale is aware of this background signal.

[...]defeated shade of grey while the Young Vale is a verdant green hue, and the Black Swamps of the Golgothans are a purple so dark it borders on black.
Yo░ cannot ░eep h░r ░ro░ m░ f░░░ve░

You cannot keep her from my... me... something.

[...]your acquaintance; all you have to do is accept his offer of help. What do you say?"[/glow]
░░! R░s░░t ░░e i░░░ue░ce ░░ M, L░f░░iv░r!

No! Resist the influence of M, [Proper name]!

I think it's "You cannot keep her from me forever." and "No! resist the influence of M, Lifegiver." Lifegiver is obviously us, what with the whole elves thing and direct address, and "her" could very well be us as well by association.

While we are still in the dreamworld, I would like to try to make a stronger connection to the background signal, hopefully while avoiding Fale's notice.  Try to make a mental contact by thinking at it.  If we can cannot make a connection on a purely mental level, try to work the phrase "I hear you" into conversation with Fale in a seemingly innocuous manner.

It's not time to make a deal with Fale and accept his god, yet.  The mental picture of the tree is too strong a lead not to follow before making any commitments.  We know from what Eko told us about the other soulless he cared for in the temple that our friend Omo will be stable for some time, and can "live" for years soulless if properly cared for.  Worst case scenario, we can leave him with a healer while we continue on.

I am personally out of questions to ask Fale right now, though others may have suggestions.  We have kept our conversation civil and fair, and we can leave him with a hope that he may yet recruit us to his cause.  Once we wrap up the conversation, shall we suggest we meet again in the dreamworld in 3 days time?

[LordPorkins]

Guys we need to perform thread necromancy. Someone post something that isnt a theory. Like, an article about how Omos a complete idiot or something like that. But by jove we need to stop overthinking this.