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[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

What i dislike Nuke, is how fast you jumped on the Defcon Day1. That was unrequited and just screamed : HEY LOOK AT THIS, i wonder what that is. Since it looks like a miller type deal ( sadly we can't know for sure, since scum died last night) and survivor is a pretty good claim to pass the last few days, i dont feel youre explanation are the truth about your motives.

[NUKE9.13]

MBP, do you not think someone would have asked me about my relation to the DEFCON situation if I had not mentioned it first? In fact, scrap that question, because I recall that OB specifically said that he was going to ask, and thanked me for answering it before he could. So it was a justified course of action.

Also, the fuck are you talking about, scum didn't die last night. No one died last night, I made sure of it. And even if scum did die in the night, how would this confirm me being a miller or not?

I am not a nuclear warhead, I am Adventure Peasant.

[Andrew425]

I am confused by this Nuke,

Why would we keep you alive if you said that you are going to side with the scum if we get to lylo?

Wouldn't it be a better idea to kill you before to prevent that possibility?

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Actually, What got lynched yesterday? Was it scum. Why yes, i believe it is. Still, my point is that i DONT believe defcon to be about scum alive, but rather a miller thing. Meaning we need to get rid of it fast, meaning that your interest back then was suspicious. 

[NUKE9.13]

Why would we keep you alive if you said that you are going to side with the scum if we get to lylo?

Dude, guy. I can appreciate you are new to the whole mafia thing, but try to keep up.

A survivor's only goal is to survive the game. He wins when the game ends with himself alive.
If lylo is reached, the scum (provided there is more than one of them) can threaten the survivor with death if he does not vote with them. In this situation the survivor has to side with the scum.
However, at this point, town victory seems certain. It is therefore in my best interest to work with the town to find the scum and end the game ASAP.

At the very least, we are days away from LyLo yet, even if we mislynch every day. For the next day or two at least, you (everyone but me) should be trying to lynch actual scum rather than a survivor. And even then, it is always better to lynch scum than a survivor.

Actually, What got lynched yesterday? Was it scum. Why yes, i believe it is. Still, my point is that i DONT believe defcon to be about scum alive, but rather a miller thing. Meaning we need to get rid of it fast, meaning that your interest back then was suspicious. 

Oh!
I see, so your theory was that DEFCON is linked to the amount of remaining scum? Right, yeah, ok. That's confusing, because no one mentioned this theory before. It is plausible, but not immediately obvious. Strange, then, that you should refer to it as if it is. And now you are trying to pass it off as a Miller thing about me.
Firstly: Millers are town. Get your terminology right (the word you are looking for is Watcher). Although you can be forgiven for this mistake as,
Secondly: You are the DEFCON-guy. It's you. And it is linked to the amount of scum remaining. You know this, and thus your refer to the 'theory' that this is the case easily despite its relative obscurity. It is also the reason that your attack on me is centered around it; of course the DEFCON situation is at the front of your mind if you are DEFCON-guy.

What, you want more arguments? Fine, how about this:

...you jumped on the Defcon Day1. That was unrequited and just screamed : HEY LOOK AT THIS, i wonder what that is.

Why is this a bad thing. Indeed, if I was a Watcher, this would be the opposite of a good idea. I invite you to consider every closed setup ever. Investigating flavour is almost always a pro-town course of action.
The only reason you would object to someone investigating the DEFCON-situation... is if you are the DEFCON guy.

However!

You can stay alive for now. Even if you are the DEFCON guy, we are only at 3 at the moment, and you probably can't do anything until 1. So we can lynch scum today, as they are- for now- a more immediate threat. To the town. I mean, to me, scum aren't a threat. Still, its better for me to act all pro-town for now.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Actually, get a grip on your facts,. I was not the first to mention it (scum countdown), and i always made clear i believed it was miller (watcher, whatever). Only said that since scum got lynched yesterday, I could not be sure if it was watcher or scum countdown. Quick on aaccusing, i see.  My vote won't move, little man. Actually, i think i got a good way to check if you are Defcon, will use it this night.

[Orangebottle]

NUKE: Looking at your posts again, I think you look more like a jester than a survivor. Seriously, if you are a survivor, then your survivor play is just awful. Your reason for claiming is pretty awful too. "To keep scum from NKing me, and town from lynching me." relies on scum not being assholes and killing you anyway, and it also relies on you not saying shit like,"I'd vote in favor of the scum at LYLO" . Saying the opposite would get you killed in the night. You were better off not claiming survivor at all. Why did you really claim?

Your case on MBP being the person DEFCON is related to is really, really bad. Mainly because I don't understand what either of you are blabbing about when it comes to this.

MBP: What the hell do you mean by a 'miller thing'? Do you even know what you're talking about? It definitely doesn't look like it.

You two gave me a goddamn headache right before I'm supposed to go hang out with some friends at the movies. Fucking hell.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Meant i beleived that Defcon was a countdown to miller(watcher) power, and not a scum alive yet countdown. It's not so complicated.

[NUKE9.13]

NUKE: Looking at your posts again, I think you look more like a jester than a survivor. Seriously, if you are a survivor, then your survivor play is just awful. Your reason for claiming is pretty awful too. "To keep scum from NKing me, and town from lynching me." relies on scum not being assholes and killing you anyway, and it also relies on you not saying shit like,"I'd vote in favor of the scum at LYLO" . Saying the opposite would get you killed in the night. You were better off not claiming survivor at all. Why did you really claim?

If the scum choose to be assholes and kill me anyway, nothing I could do could stop them. I have used my one-shot to prevent them from being assholes last night. For future nights, I intend to rely on them not being interested in killing someone that could help them win if they make it to LyLo. They shouldn't be.
That I would side with scum to win the game (eg at lylo) is a fact. If I didn't, I'd be breaking the most important rule in mafia (always play to win). I am not going to lie about that.
Which is why I didn't claim survivor D1. If I had, you would've been quite justified in lynching me in the absence of better targets. However, I now judge it extremely unlikely that we will reach LyLo, and that there are enough obvscum that my lynch will never become a sensible course of action.
This is why I really claimed. I believe it was the optimal course of action, having a high chance of ensuring my victory.

Also, for serious, MBP is the DEFCON-guy. I am like 85% certain.

Actually, get a grip on your facts,. I was not the first to mention it (scum countdown), and i always made clear i believed it was miller (watcher, whatever). Only said that since scum got lynched yesterday, I could not be sure if it was watcher or scum countdown. Quick on aaccusing, i see.  My vote won't move, little man. Actually, i think i got a good way to check if you are Defcon, will use it this night.

Okay, firstly, you are not scary; I am not scared. Threatening to keep your vote on me is... childish, really. I am a survivor. There is no point in lynching me.
Accusing me of accusing you too quickly is silly. What, should I wait a day before pointing out my suspicions? No. I notice them now, I point them out now.
If you have a way of checking if I am DEFCON guy, why would you lynch me before being certain. In fact, I mentioned the DEFCON thing D1. Why didn't you check on me N1? Well, because you are lying about having this power- you'd have to be a freaking moron to claim role-cop like this.
You may not have been the first to mention it, but it hasn't been mentioned recently. Given the day-by-day steady countdown, I had stopped even imagining it might not be a day-based countdown (foolish). You, on the other hand, have this alternate explanation so in the forefront of your mind that you refer to it without clarifying- I honestly had no idea what you were talking about in the post you voted for me.

This is like when a SK refers to 'the SK', or when a doctor suggests that the lack of a NK is due to 'the doctor', despite the fact that the presence of these roles has not been established as likely amongst the rest of the players. It is a fairly reliable tell.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

First off, childish for keeping my vote on my best anti-town guess. No, i don't think so.

Also,  I did not say anything about a role cop. My method is something else. Not completely foolproof ( it's a Byor after all, dunno what nasty ability you got) but rather reliable  I would hasard. Why i did not use it on you Day 1 ? Because i had other thing to do. 5 days is plenty, really, and using it without good suspicion would be wastefull. Also, i can't be everywhere.

[Orangebottle]

Meant i beleived that Defcon was a countdown to miller(watcher) power, and not a scum alive yet countdown. It's not so complicated.

...
Millers are people who are town, but flip scum when investigated.
Watchers are people who can figure out who targeted their target.
I fail to see how this is related at all.

That I would side with scum to win the game (eg at lylo) is a fact. If I didn't, I'd be breaking the most important rule in mafia (always play to win). I am not going to lie about that.

Yes, but mentioning it to the town is a great way to get lynched. Which is not winning.

Which is why I didn't claim survivor D1. If I had, you would've been quite justified in lynching me in the absence of better targets. However, I now judge it extremely unlikely that we will reach LyLo, and that there are enough obvscum that my lynch will never become a sensible course of action.
This is why I really claimed. I believe it was the optimal course of action, having a high chance of ensuring my victory.

What I'm wondering is why you claimed at all. Anything besides your action is superfluous detail that leads to arguments like the one we're having right now. All claiming does is confirm to the scum that you're not town, and that they don't need to kill you to win. That's opposed to acting like a townie for the rest of the game and a small chance of getting killed in the night.
It just doesn't make sense to me.

I am a survivor. There is no point in lynching me.

That's completely false. It'd be true if you were a pro-town survivor, but you've admitted to being a pro-scum survivor. On the off-chance that this game goes to LYLO and you make it there, you'd cause a town loss. I'd say that's a pretty compelling reason to lynch you right now.

[NativeForeigner]

Popping in to point out to NUKE that I brought up that theory earlier.

[Toaster]

Vote Count:

Ottofar:
Dariush:  Nuke9.13, OrangeBottle, Jack A T,
Powder Miner:
Think0028:
OrangeBottle:
Urist Imiknorris:
Mysteriousbluepuppet:
Andrew425:
NativeForeigner:
Jack A T:
Darvi:
Urist_McArathos:
Nuke9.13: Dariush, Ottofar, NativeForeigner, Mysteriousbluepuppet,
Jim Groovester:

No Lynch:

Not Voting: Think0028, Darvi, Urist_McArathos, Jim Groovester, Powder Miner, Urist Imiknorris, Andrew425,

Day 3 will last until Tuesday 12/20 at 11 PM EST.

[Jim Groovester]

NUKE: Looking at your posts again, I think you look more like a jester than a survivor. Seriously, if you are a survivor, then your survivor play is just awful. Your reason for claiming is pretty awful too. "To keep scum from NKing me, and town from lynching me." relies on scum not being assholes and killing you anyway, and it also relies on you not saying shit like,"I'd vote in favor of the scum at LYLO" . Saying the opposite would get you killed in the night. You were better off not claiming survivor at all. Why did you really claim?

Claimed survivor isn't really a scum target. Unless, of course, the scum don't believe the claim.

Scum being assholes sets them back in this particular instance, so I don't understand your point.

Popping in to point out to NUKE that I brought up that theory earlier.

Which theory is this?

Pay a favor to me, I still haven't read the thread.

there are enough obvscum that my lynch will never become a sensible course of action.

Enough obvscum?

Like whom?

MBP, do you not think someone would have asked me about my relation to the DEFCON situation if I had not mentioned it first? In fact, scrap that question, because I recall that OB specifically said that he was going to ask, and thanked me for answering it before he could. So it was a justified course of action.

What, no it wasn't. This logic is stupid. You are stupid.

There's a humongous difference between doing things unprompted versus doing them prompted. Denying involvement about DEFCON levels is definitely one of those things that looks incredibly suspicious to do unprompted.

You trying to spin it like there's no difference between the two is transparently terrible argumentation you should be ashamed of making for someone who prizes his own argumentation so highly. Also it's scummy.

Why am I such a terrible survivor: Um. Not to honk my own horn here, but I managed to survive all that bullshit on D1 and D2. I am pretty much the greatest survivor there is. I didn't intend for my D1 actions to cause such an incredible shitstorm, and I didn't intend for webadict to defend me, but none of it matters, because I can argument my way out of anything. I AM THE GREATEST. (Heh heh heh heh heh)

Argument your way out of this: NUKE9.13. Not such a great survivor now, are ya?

I'm betting RIAing scum than survivor. You're old school, this a thing you'd do.

Possibly more later if I get through the thread.

[NativeForeigner]

Jim: That the DEFCON was related to the number of scum left. It was an early theory of mine, along with days remaining until we all blow up.