Re:Mafia Laws: The Mafia Guidelines are
usually the optimal way to play. They are not always so. If one considers the origin of the guidelines, we can follow the logic that created them in the extelligence of the mafia community. We can also see the loopholes and caveats which the extelligence cannot remember.
They are not unbreakable laws. I said this, and then you turn around and say the opposite. What makes you think that the Mafia Laws are unbreakable?
Re:Scum Meta: Well, if you really want to drag Meta into things, I defer you to the Jack quote above. It is a null-tell.
Re:The rage-filled core of your post:
You are not fucking playing the game if you cannot threaten, hunt, and eliminate the scum.
No denying this. Never did, never will. It is the point of the game. Suggesting that I might try to deny this- or that I already have- is ridiculous.
Nobody panics if they're not going to get lynched, especially not the scum, so your scumhunting is going to be 100% fruitless on all but the worst scum.
Ahahahahahaha... no. This is plain false. The scum (and everyone else) is not merely concerned with immediate survival. Public opinion of them matters to them. Check out the scumchat from any game. Odds are quite good that you will find someone mentioning concern at a town comment which is disconcertingly accurate, even if said comment is mentioned as a minor thing with no vote attached.
If scum thinks that they have been pegged, and that their pegger is quite certain for legitimate reasons, they will panic. Even the best will have a brief moment of internal panic- and even the best cannot fully disguise this panic.
Reasons to fear suspicion as well as imminent death: Investigations, vig kills, roleblocks, lynches on future days, increased scrutiny (leading to more suspicion), a fear of ubermenschen with psychic powers (seriously- when people get things totally right, that in itself is scary).
Considering the town's goal is to "eliminate all the forces that threaten the town" and you can't eliminate said forces without lynching them, yes, I'd argue you're going against the goal of the game and are thus not playing the game.
I have repeatedly stated that my no-lynching desire is applicable for today only. This is an example of something I have only said in your head- I have always been quite clear that I am not against all lynches, just against
today's lynch in
this game.
You might as well be dead, you'd be just as useful.
I hate to nitpick, but a live towny staves off lylo regardless of how little they participate.
On a more substantial note, this relies on your previous point, which is unequivocally false.
You strategy of doing nothing will cost someone their life, why not make it yours?
My strategy of doing nothing, even if it was my strategy- why would that cost someone their life? Inaction is notorious for having no effects, death included.
Everything you say means nothing because the end result is the same everytime and everyone know this.
Broad, sweeping statements like this come forth from rage and have no weight (sorry). I can't even fully comprehend what you are trying to say here, although I can certainly object to the last part- you are not the spokesperson of Everyone Vs NUKE9.13. I see no indication in the thread that everyone knows... whatever it is you are saying.
You can say whoever is scum til the cows come home, but that player won't act any differently because you're harmless.
Repeating arguments does not enhance their strength- this, again, stems from rage. There was no need to repeat this argument here.
See above for my response (begins with Ahahahahaha)
Worthless. Meaningless. A waste of a player slot. A waste of my fucking time talking to you. A waste to the entire game.
Insults, stemming from anger, do not enhance the strength of your arguments. Now, I will concede that a few carefully placed (and bitingly accurate) insults can help on a psychological front, but this sort of thing, I'm sorry to say, actually makes your arguments weaker- you are the one
panicking here, not I.
A DETRIMENT to the rest of us trying to have fun while you're sitting there saying "no let's randomly lynch and leave the game up chance. Also let's not even bother with the day game, it's useless"
And here, from nowhere, emerges the most confusing part of your entire post.
By what twisted train of logic did you ever arrive at the idea that I am advocating a policy of random lynching? Where on earth have I said anything even remotely resembling a suggestion of this course of action? (Other than in reference to my actions in a totally different game)
If you're going to continue suggesting that please, fucking leave. Seriously, I know I said it was crossing the line earlier when you told someone else to leave the game based on in-game actions, but when you with a straight face suggest we should all stop playing the game and just start rolling dice to determine who wins or say the day game is a waste of time, I have to say you're the one who's being the dick. Now if you'd like to join us over here in this fun game of mafia, you're invited. But if you're going to come to the party and tell us all to stop, you're not welcome.
To start with, this appears to stem from your entirely false idea that I am proposing random lynching.
Secondly, I believe that no one in their right minds would ever act as you are suggesting I act. Unless you are suggesting I am clinically insane
*, this is a nonsensical accusation, and if you hadn't worked yourself up into a tornado of fury, you would not present it.
Thirdly, there is one rule in mafia which is important and unbreakable, and the punishment for breaking it should be harsh- that rule is 'Always play to win'. I think you'll find that I am playing by this rule. I argue that Ottofar is not
*. Someone like Dariush, who I find exceptionally annoying, I can nevertheless tolerate, because careful analysis of his actions has revealed that- surprisingly- he appears to have working brain cells, and his 'huge dick' demeanour is one which- at the very least in his mind- enhances his chances of victory. Being a dick can be a legitimate- if very annoying- strategy, and if you start kicking people from games for using it, you set foot upon a very slippery slope which ends in daaaark places (and highly unenjoyable games of mafia).
On the other hand your logic falls to pieces because apparently a magic night happens? Or something?
Your failure to understand my arguments does not indicate their incomprehensibility, it indicates your anger-clouded mind. That ones anger and tunnel-vision should diminish overnight, and that night-action results (public or no) should change the dynamic of the day game, are not incomprehensible concepts.
Where the town's actions reveal nothing but somehow you're more sure your scumpick is scum?
If, after a nights rest, I still think that, "yes, the person I thought was scum is probably scum", then yes, I think that the odds that he actually is scum is higher than if I think "hmm, on second thoughts, I may have been tunnelling a tad there. I suppose his actions could be explained by X".
I don't get it, it makes no sense. In fact, it makes so little sense I advocate you're scum using faulty logic to defend yourself, that's how fucking bad this magic night theory is.
Once again, your failure to comprehend is not proof of their incomprehensibility, given your current condition.
The reason the second lynch is good is because of information we learned from the first lynch.
Night actions, and the choice of mafiakill (or, indeed, the lack of a mafiakill), have no significant bearing on your choice of D2 lynch? This I find hard to believe. That everyone else shares this sentiment I find even harder to believe.
That's pretty fucking obvious though, so you're using clearly bullshit reasoning to defend your stance.
Repeating arguments does not enhance their strength. It is not 'obvious', except to your rage-addled mind.
Have fun with your magic night, though, I'm sure it will work out great for you.
Condescension. Not useful.
So yeah, disregard that second paragraph if you're scum because then all your actions make a fuckload more sense.
Alternatively, I am not scum and it is your arguments which do not make sense. I pose that seeing as I do not show signs of being batshit crazy, in contrast to you, the scenario where I am perfectly sane and you are misled due to anger be considered more likely.
Re:Re:Powder Miner:
You say a lot of words but they all mean nothing. The definition of active lurking. If you need to see why they mean nothing, see above.
Your anger has not subsided since the core block. I believe that I have said plenty of words with a plethora of meaning, and that I can certainly not be accused of activelurking of all things.
I am looking above, but I am seeing nothing which leads up to an accusation of activelurking.
Re:Re:ECoF:
Pot calling the kettle black.
Um. I think that this is pretty much as false as a statement of this nature can get. ECoF's three-line posts of curt replies and little original content stand in stark contrast to my WoTs with rather large amounts of detailed discussion and controversial opinions.
Also this is followed by more insults. More childish than RAAAGE at this point. Were you tired? Was this late, when you posted this?
Re:Re:TolyK: Ah, we get something interesting here again. For reference, I posed that it is not possible to pick scum from the crowd reliably D1.
Oh my god, no. Just... no. Recant this opinion. Now.
No. It is based in empirical evidence. I have a neat explanation for why it should be the case. It is a tried and tested theory- it is less an opinion and more a fact the accuracy of which is (to a degree) debatable.
I refuse to play with you if you think it would be more fun to just roll some fucking dice to see who wins the game. We do NOT play that kind of game here.
Again with the dice rolling accusation. I have never suggested anything like this at all, but in that quote in particular I can see absolutely nothing which even suggests the possibility of the idea of this occurring.
Indeed, it is closer to the opposite- I basically state that D1 lynches are random (or worse than random), and that this is part of what motivates me to suggest
not performing it.
there is NOTHING fun about saying "well we decided to randomly lynch Webadict and he came up scum, that's good".
...still not seeing how you are getting this impression from me.
The fun is in the hunt, why do you hate the hunt?
I am all in favour of the hunt. See: almost every post I have made recently. I am opposed to the
kill at the end of the hunt.
It doesn't even matter if you're right, the point is that what you're suggesting is "let's not play the game". (Emphasis mine)
So, what you are saying here is, you would rather
intentionally lose the game than utilise a strategy which you object to?
That, my friend, is breaking the one rule.
Now, I will admit- I wouldn't like it either, if 'not playing' was truly the optimal strategy. I really, really HATE lurking as scum. HATE IT.
Still do it, though, because I always play to win- its the town's fault for not paying enough attention to lurkers if that strategy works.
If you don't like the strategy, change the situation so that the strategy is no longer optimal. Do not discount the strategy due to personal preference- that is breaking the one rule.
Followed by more anger and insults (increasingly childish- honestly, man, retardation? What?)
Holy FUCKING shit am I pissed off. Let's see what NUKE says because it's really fucking important. I don't even feel like going back through more of this shit until then, holy hell. NUKE, seriously, what the flying fuck are you thinking? Are you retarded? Why the hell did you join if you don't like playing? What's your problem? Why did you fucking join if your strategy is "hurr durr do nothing because im retarded hurr hurr"?
At this point, the theory that your role requires you to flip way off of the handle to power up came to the fore in my mind because I greatly prefer it to the idea that someone who clearly isn't entirely stupid should break down so badly.
Deflection onto lurkers, a joke about Webadict. Both scummy but I don't give a shit right now.
Deflection?
What, exactly, would I be deflecting?
Also, lurkers are always an acceptable target, and the game as a whole is improved (made more fun) if lurking is discouraged- every little helps.
If jokes are scummy now, well, lynch me where I stand, because I just love me some jokes.
Long story short I'm not even going to bother anymore, NUKE gets a permavote for the rest of the game. I don't even care anymore.
As I mentioned earlier. Hypocrisy of the highest degree; this has gone from funny to annoying to sad to unbelievable.