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[Kogut]

....

Am I the only fucking person on the forum that doesn't have a fetish for killing elves?

I like trading with them. They bring me plenty of wood for my furnaces/carpentry.

I normally trade with them since I can trade off tons of masterwork gold goblets for only the stuff I need, not useless crap as I get with killing them.

But if they're hostile toward me...

And hauling -wooden armour- to atom smasher is frustrating.

[the one and only joseph]

...and I'm vegetarian.

and? so am i, and that didnt stop me from editing the raws so my dwarfs could eat sapients. that doubled my food supply over night and has prevented many a fort from starving. its also cool (get your goblin burgers whilst there fresh!)

and i always kill the elf merchants as apparently that is the best way to get animals from them.

also, thanks to dragonlance, elves are the only race i am truely racist towards.

... i am bigoted against a fictional race. i think i need help. or more magma. one of the two.

[zzedar]

I was willing to deal with them being dirty, cannibalistic hippies that wore hemp(sorry, "rope reed") clothes and rode into my fort on camels every now and then, but then I purchased a cage from them, put a cat in it(trying to prevent catsplosion humanely) and tried to sell it back, and they left in disgust.  It was a breaking point for me, and I fully look forward to each and every elf christmas.

I like elves. They give me giant eagles. You've never given me a giant eagle.

More seriously, I think one's attitude towards elves depends on when one started playing. They used to be much more annoying, back when they sent some of the least diplomatic diplomats I've ever seen (it's the short jokes). If you started playing after that stopped, you probably don't have the same sort of animus towards them.

[acetech09]

I was willing to deal with them being dirty, cannibalistic hippies that wore hemp(sorry, "rope reed") clothes and rode into my fort on camels every now and then, but then I purchased a cage from them, put a cat in it(trying to prevent catsplosion humanely) and tried to sell it back, and they left in disgust.  It was a breaking point for me, and I fully look forward to each and every elf christmas.

I like elves. They give me giant eagles. You've never given me a giant eagle.

Well, they try to sell you giant eagles. I see what they're carrying, and if it's good, I don't feel compelled to pay for it.

[zzedar]

Well, they try to sell you giant eagles. I see what they're carrying, and if it's good, I don't feel compelled to pay for it.

My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they only bring the good stuff if they like you. If they make a profit one year, of if you offer them a lot, they'll bring better tradegoods next year. So being polite to them at the beginning is an investment in the future. That's the thing about elves: the stuff they bring you at first is lousy compared to the dwarves and humans, but once you become bestest friends, they'll bring you animals that are arguably better than anything other traders will bring.

For me, even the early elves aren't so useless as they are for most players. I never create a true cloth industry, except for one clothier's shop. I get all my cloth and most of my leather through trade. Now, you don't actually need all that much cloth since dwarves are nudists, but I like to have a surplus just in case.

[Loud Whispers]

I only do what benefits my fort at the time. If I need wood, or like that Giant badger horde in the caravan, I'll trade, or sieze. If I need prisoners, wanton slaughter ftw.

[Iton Ibrukrithzam]

I was willing to deal with them being dirty, cannibalistic hippies that wore hemp(sorry, "rope reed") clothes and rode into my fort on camels every now and then, but then I purchased a cage from them, put a cat in it(trying to prevent catsplosion humanely) and tried to sell it back, and they left in disgust.  It was a breaking point for me, and I fully look forward to each and every elf christmas.

I like elves. They give me giant eagles. You've never given me a giant eagle.

The elves only give you the eagles if you kill them.  Otherwise they sell them.  You've never killed me, so how do know whether you'd get a giant eagle out of it?

[UristMcHuman]

....

Am I the only fucking person on the forum that doesn't have a fetish for killing elves?

I like the elves, they tend to be really helpful. I've never been at war with them, and I hate any unnecessary loss of life, so I tend to avoid killing them. The again, I've never used magma in my life, and I'm vegetarian.

Some dwarf I am...

I never let a fort last long enough to see the first Elven caravan. I've only traded with them ONCE in my ENTIRE Dwarf Fortress digging career, and they were fairly helpful. (except for that part where all that crap they bring is horribly over-priced)

I like the Elves, too. They're helpful sometimes. I've never lasted long enough to piss them off (yet) and I dislike losing any of my own, too. I didn't have a military at that time, so I couldn't kill them anyways. I've used Magma once or twice, though never as a weapon. I first thought that I'd be leading vegetarian forts, until I figured out that I could fish and use eggs and milk creatures.

Some "Dwarf" I am...

[zzedar]

The elves only give you the eagles if you kill them.  Otherwise they sell them.  You've never killed me, so how do know whether you'd get a giant eagle out of it?

Good point. Time for !!SCIENCE!!

(What do you think? Too far?)

[Zaerosz]

Well, they try to sell you giant eagles. I see what they're carrying, and if it's good, I don't feel compelled to pay for it.

My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they only bring the good stuff if they like you. If they make a profit one year, of if you offer them a lot, they'll bring better tradegoods next year. So being polite to them at the beginning is an investment in the future. That's the thing about elves: the stuff they bring you at first is lousy compared to the dwarves and humans, but once you become bestest friends, they'll bring you animals that are arguably better than anything other traders will bring.

For me, even the early elves aren't so useless as they are for most players. I never create a true cloth industry, except for one clothier's shop. I get all my cloth and most of my leather through trade. Now, you don't actually need all that much cloth since dwarves are nudists, but I like to have a surplus just in case.

Actually, the more they like you, the more valuable stuff they bring you. And in strict value terms, bins of cloth are worth more than giant animals. If you trade with them and give them big profit margins, you can 'look forward' to a big cloth load next spring. If you just take their shit (killing optional) you get more animals.

[Casp]

I was willing to deal with them being dirty, cannibalistic hippies that wore hemp(sorry, "rope reed") clothes and rode into my fort on camels every now and then, but then I purchased a cage from them, put a cat in it(trying to prevent catsplosion humanely) and tried to sell it back, and they left in disgust.  It was a breaking point for me, and I fully look forward to each and every elf christmas.

I like elves. They give me giant eagles. You've never given me a giant eagle.

More seriously, I think one's attitude towards elves depends on when one started playing. They used to be much more annoying, back when they sent some of the least diplomatic diplomats I've ever seen (it's the short jokes). If you started playing after that stopped, you probably don't have the same sort of animus towards them.

Or you just hate elves on principle. Before I picked up DF, I was a gaint LOTR fan. And I hated the elves. Snotty, stuck up, perfect bastards.
So elf genocide seems like a logical conclusion.

[SebbyTheFreak]

I love elves.

They traded 53 wood logs during a critical wood shortage for a single cookie made entirely out of well minced sugar.

(the 11 other cookies bought pretty much everything else in the caravan... dem elves love dem diabetis)

[zzedar]

And in strict value terms, bins of cloth are worth more than giant animals. If you trade with them and give them big profit margins, you can 'look forward' to a big cloth load next spring. If you just take their shit (killing optional) you get more animals.

Couple of problems with this. First of all, giant eagles have a petvalue of 700, significantly more than your average cloth bin. Second, there's weight considerations. A cloth bin weighs less than 10 Γ, so it would take a truly stupendous amount of cloth before they're anywhere close to the weight limit, meaning that there'll be plenty of room for animals. Finally, I think (though I'm not sure) that as they like you more, they'll start bringing you more stuff total.

In any case, whatever the reason, I've found that making valuable offers makes them significantly more likely to bring valuable animals in the future. Try it yourself; check the cargo of the first elven caravan that comes. It's very unlikely to contain any animal more valuable than a black bear. Now offer a few thousand in jewelry to the first couple of caravans and check the cargo of future ones.

[zzedar]

Or you just hate elves on principle. Before I picked up DF, I was a gaint LOTR fan. And I hated the elves. Snotty, stuck up, perfect bastards.
So elf genocide seems like a logical conclusion.

Yeah, LOTR elves are terrible. In Tolkien's backstory, the elves hunted the first dwarves like animals. I swear I'm not making this up. When the first dwarves showed up, the elves didn't realize they were sapient, thought they were animals, and hunted them. Toady's never said, but I've always thought that the cannibalism of DF elves is a reference to that.

[Dave1004]

....

Am I the only fucking person on the forum that doesn't have a fetish for killing elves?

I like the elves, they tend to be really helpful. I've never been at war with them, and I hate any unnecessary loss of life, so I tend to avoid killing them. The again, I've never used magma in my life, and I'm vegetarian.

Some dwarf I am...

Harsh but you are doing it wrong

No...No, I'm not. Rather than being a cheap Chaotic Evil Beserker, I prefer to view myself more of a Chaotic Neutral Paladin. Not evil, not exactly good, but I do what's right. If I'm being attacked by hordes of goblins, they die. If peaceful villagers come to trade, I trade.

Read the web comic "Goblins", and the Paladin in there is incredibly accurate. He's a Dwarf, by the way. And the comic is -very- dwarfy. I promise you that...