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[PTTG??]

So you're saying that nobody should vote for a third party, because they might lose if enough people think like you?

And that voting for the same people to keep coming back and do the same things that you yourself complain about is somehow better?

So go, go to your protests. I'm sure you can convince your senator to put aside millions of dollars in bribes to do what you want, even though he knows you will keep voting for him if he's found sacrificing children on an altar to Monsanto. Ask for some magical perfect democrat to show up and promise to make everything better. His name is Obama, and he just signed SOPA.

[Criptfeind]

Hah. No.

Feel free to not vote. Still useless. But at least you are not ragging on others for being useless/worse then useless.

In a election you have two choices, one of them is going to be better. I don't even care if you think Republicans or Democrats are better. The fact is you think one side is better then the other. You can still think they are both scum, but one is worse scum.

Those are your only options. Your voting for a third party DOES NOTHING but takes your vote away from the party you think is better (even better scum)

But that is the system. And you should damn well find a way to work within it. If you want change, don't vote for a third party that also supports it, you need to make one of the two main parties support it.

But. I don't care what you do. So long as you realize the system. Even voting for third parties is fine. But voting for them and pretending you are being "better" than someone who is voting for one of the two main parties in unacceptable.

I see no difference between you and someone who thinks they are better because they do not vote at all.

[PTTG??]

you need to make one of the two main parties support it.

How are you going to do that? Where are you going to find the millions of dollars it would take to out-bribe special interests?

Do you not see, even if no third party or independent wins, if many people vote for them, the two big parties are going to see that. Votes and money are the only thing they care about- not protests. Democrats will be forced to take real action to prove that they are liberal. Republicans will see true conservatives leaving- people who've voted republican for decades. That will get both of them to take action.

I think you and I agree that the two party system is seriously broken. While I support fighting against it, you support the rational but defeatist position of minimizing harm. What you fail to realize is that very strategy is what got us in this situation in the first place.

[Criptfeind]

The thing is, you do have a leaver. They are not impervious, because the other party can still be there. If you make it known to them how popular that position is, they will take it up to spite the other party. In theory at least. In the same vein of they will take it up because they fear third parties.

Yet at the same time you have the minimizing of harm as you called it.. And honestly, the "harm" seems bigger every day.

So yeah. I want to go with the "minimizing harm" even if it has a possibility to go slower then the maximizing harm way.

[PTTG??]

At best, all voting for more republicans or more democrats is going to do is keep us stationary.

[Criptfeind]

How is a third party going to help? I mean. There have been third parties for hundreds of years, but I can count on my thumbs the successful ones.

All/most of the major ideological shifts in parties have came from within the larger parties.

[Fenrir]

Neither one of you is going to make a voting decision that will shape the American political system in any dramatic way. Arguing about who is less effectual really is a waste of your time.

_{^{Hypocracy coming from me, I know, but not less true.}}

[Aklyon]

Go make your own thread if you want to continue your circular argument, you guys are just clogging up the thread at this point.

[DrPoo]

No, as an insane conservative who seeks to control and/or destroy humanity I am some what against the idea of intelligence, and anything that derives from it such as freedom of speech and open communication.

Gah shut up! Real conservatives arent even like that, american conservatives are fake conservatives!
If they were real they would be fighting their arses off for keeping it as it has always been.

[Aklyon]

So, in less circular and more relevant news, there is an alternative bill being proposed with Wyden's support. The supporters of PIPA/SOPA on the other hand, think its utter crap.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The supporters of PIPA/SOPA on the other hand, think its utter crap.

Oh, what a surprise. Obviously it's too sane.

[PyroDesu]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

His name is Obama, and he just signed SOPA.

The democrats and Obama support PROTECT IP / EPARASITE / SOPA / WHATEVER ACRONYM THEY HAVE THIS WEEK as well. If there is one thing in America that can gather bipartisan support, it is suppressing free speech and censoring the internet.

*Cough*

I don't think that the Term: "Net Neutrality" is particularly conducive to passing a bill that would censor the internet.

It also helps that I have sources to back up what I'm saying, unlike you two.

I have no love for Obama, but neither do I hate him. But I prefer the facts, not opinions.

On the topic of PIPA/SOPA, I think it'll get crushed the moment it goes before the Supreme Court. If it doesn't get vetoed, that is. And if it isn't, god help this country when the people start standing up to it.

[Heron TSG]

On the topic of PIPA/SOPA, I think it'll get crushed the moment it goes before the Supreme Court. If it doesn't get vetoed, that is. And if it isn't, god help this country when the people start standing up to it.

Because only terrorists defy the government, and the military can abduct those.

[PTTG??]

Watch the vote!

Currently voting on a nearly pointless amendment, not the bill itself.

start getting your TORs set up ASAP.

[Aklyon]

Looking through /r/SOPA, apparently Mr. Chaffetz has said something about nerds. This picture seems to sum it up.