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Author Topic: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...  (Read 30991 times)

Darvi

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2012, 03:18:25 pm »

If you recruit a CCS sleeper to promote liberalism, and nobody notices it, does it still make a noise?

That, uh, got kinda out of hand there.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 05:59:46 pm »

You have to make a sleeper of one of the CCS bosses, the "hardened veterans" in heavy body armor, then have that sleeper snoop around for secrets. They can deliver a backer list to the homeless shelter.
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tahujdt

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2012, 07:30:01 pm »

Huh, I didn't realize that hardened veterans were CCS bosses. I thought it meant military veterans. Do they have a talking attack too, or just M16s?
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Darvi

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 01:21:35 am »

Chances are, they're actually both. Kind of like how the LCS founder can be something like a professional thief.
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ff2

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 09:56:04 pm »

I'm pretty much elite liberal, it's mostly liberal laws, but I have a elite liberal president, all elite liberal supreme court, and elite liberal congress and senate. Everything I did was seduce people and make them write news. I sold bondage gear and bought a printing press, and waited until the free speech became conservative to write more papers. It's been over 20 years but everything is going smooth now.

Edit: I won!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 10:03:31 pm by ff2 »
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Corai

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 10:43:06 pm »

I'm pretty much elite liberal, it's mostly liberal laws, but I have a elite liberal president, all elite liberal supreme court, and elite liberal congress and senate. Everything I did was seduce people and make them write news. I sold bondage gear and bought a printing press, and waited until the free speech became conservative to write more papers. It's been over 20 years but everything is going smooth now.

Edit: I won!

Tell me how...
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Jboy2000000

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2012, 01:59:55 am »

I'm pretty much elite liberal, it's mostly liberal laws, but I have a elite liberal president, all elite liberal supreme court, and elite liberal congress and senate. Everything I did was seduce people and make them write news. I sold bondage gear and bought a printing press, and waited until the free speech became conservative to write more papers. It's been over 20 years but everything is going smooth now.

Edit: I won!

Tell me how...
It ain't that hard. You just need to get the Elite Liberal Amendment, and then you have to do it again, except with an extra House/Senate roll.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 02:17:41 am by Jboy2000000 »
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Darvi

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 02:02:31 am »

Yeah, pretty much. All the other justices will then be branded arch-conservatives and deported into select conservative countries.
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ed boy

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 09:20:05 pm »

Having seen this thread, I decided to give it a go, except I wans't going to permit myself to attack the CCS.

I've outlined my strategy below, followed by some comments on what I learned from it (I'm faily new to LCS, so I made some poor errors).

I started out by having the founder take mostly the intelligence options, with a couple charisma ones, so he ended up with 15 INT and 9 CHA. I then immediately recruited six liberal judges, as they have such high stats (I wanted at least 9 INT on each one, with high CHA). I had them solicit donations for money while the founder trained up tailoring with the money and provided them all with expensive suits. Then, one-by-one, I got each of the judges to recruit sleepers while the others solicted donations and the founder made and sold expensive suits. The first judge got four firemen, the second got four judges, the third got four policemen, the fourth got four radio station empoyees and the fifth got four cable station employees. I intended for the sixth to infiltrate the CCS so I could publish the backer list as soon as free speech went C. I managed to get one of the door guards at the gentlemen's club as a sleeper, and after much trying managed to get the CCS hideout location from someone (who ended the relationship before they could be recruited as a sleeper). I spent ages trying to get the hardened veteran as a sleeper, but I had no success (I can only assume that the lack of juice was holding me back).

Once all that was done, it was about 2012/2013 and I had about 55K stored up, which lasted me the rest of the game (I finished on about 30K). My only expenditure from then until the end of the game was buying upgrades for the safehouses and paying the 100/month rent on the safehouse that I started with. I had everybody train writing by writing to newspapers until they hit their cap, while the sleepers gained effectiveness. Once everybody was trained up, I would start rotating the sleepers by having them promote liberalism when they hit 80% and stop when they hit 60%. Over the next few years, I was able to get a couple laws to C instead of C+, usually gun control laws. It wasn't until 2018 that free speech hit C.

I immediately bought a printing press, and moved everybody to the safehouse with it in. Expecting a siege from the CCS at some point, I bought a few extras (fortified compound, some rations, security cameras, traps, generator) so I could slip out and avoid any danger. However, the CCS never attacked me. They were certainly very active (newspapers popping up every few days), but none of it affected me.

I turned everybody onto writing for the liberal guardian. I also got some of my sleepers to start uncovering evidence, hoping to get some special editions out. However, only the police station sleepers were able to provide me with anything. My best uess for this would be that only certain people from locations can provide evidence, and as I just recruited the first I came across, I couldn't get anything from them. I printed the liberal guardian for 6 months, until congress turned free speech back to C+, at which point I went to the same tactics I used beforehand. There didn't seem to be very uch effect form that six-month stint - the congress elections went the same way they had done before (overwhelming C+ majority), though the president did go to C. A year after it was made illegal, it was made legal again, and I resumed my printing strategy.

Once again, the elections went the same way as always for a while, until in 2021 and early 2022, the clearing out congress amendment was proposed three times, succeeding on the third attempt. Six months later, the supreme court amendment was proposed successfully. From that point on, it was just holding down w and waiting for the laws to turn to L+ one-by-one, with nothing interesting happening. Victory was finally achieved in november 2026.

In hindsight, there are quite a few ways to improve the method. I only recruited 6 people with my founder, though I could have recruited 7 (I wanted to keep a spare slot for emergencies). Similarly, each of the judges I recruited could in turn have more than four sleepers, I only stopped at four because I knew that further additions would get more difficult, though still possible. Incidentally, does anyone know the limit for sleepers recruited?

The sleepers themselves could be changed as well. I wanted to get a range of sleepers to ensure I had a range of topics to publish a special edition on, but in hindsight special editions were not as important as I expected. Instead, it would probably be more efficient to choose sleepers such that public attention is drawn to free speech as fast as possible, so you can take advantage of the liberal guardian as fast as possible.

The lack of juice is an absolute pain. It means that starting stats are what you will be stuck with. I couldn't find any way of increasing juice without a criminal record being gained, so I was stuck with no stats higher than 10 on my recruits. Even worse, I accidentally booked two dates with one of the recruited judges, netting him -5 juice. Although he was able to get his juice back to 0 with community service, the founder suffered a -1 to juice (bringing him to 49) that I had no way of fixing, reducing his stats by 2. It happened before I was able to max out his skills, so all of his writing was done at 13 skill instead of 15.

The part of the game that the most happened was the start. In the first few years, all the recruitments were made, all the money was obtained and all the skills were trained. After that, it was just passing time, with checks on the effectiveness of the sleepers. Although the CCS didn't pose any in-game problems, they were very irritating anyway, as their antics would cause the in-game newspaper announcements to appear, and w doesn't skip those. When it happens several times a month, it increases the playing time by an awful lot.

I have tried a couple times what would be the escalation of this challenge - only one active member. I can conclude that if you only have one active member, you do need sleeper agents, as without there is no way of drawing enough attention to free speech in order to get the liberal guardian out. It may be possible to do it with sleepers, but if it is possible it would only barely be possible. I tried it a few times and failed, though I was using inefficient sleeper layouts for those attempts. I don't know enough about how the sleepers promoting liberalism works to determine an optimal layout, though.
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Soadreqm

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2012, 11:53:56 am »

Why couldn't your founder Community Serve his way back to 0 juice?
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2012, 02:42:39 pm »

Why couldn't your founder Community Serve his way back to 0 juice?

The founder started the game with 50 juice. Losing 1 juice brought him to 49 juice, and community service can't fix that.
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lastofthelight

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2012, 12:15:26 pm »

An interesting challenge concept, but a bit flawed. Rather then not breaking the law, you should go for nonviolence. That would mean no killing or violence of any sort, no theft, no immoral actions in any means. So attacking the crime squad members is out. Lying or manipulation is out (no seducing sleeper agents). Songs and public protests are acceptable, creating a disturbance without theft or violence is acceptable.
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KA101

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2012, 05:59:05 pm »

That's a pretty broad definition of nonviolence, and since Liberal Disobedience includes violent action (paint on coats is technically assault under most criminal laws IRL) that's out.  No getting items during a site action as well as no seducing means that Special Editions will probably be limited to judges, media, and (really late in the game) police records.  (Hacking the Supercomputer probably qualifies.  It's a pretty weird set of priorities that would allow getting the Data Disc but not Secret Documents, IMO.)

Would graffiti qualify as violence?  How about jury tampering?  Opening cells may not be violent but certainly promotes violent action (whether by LEOs trying to recapture, by escaping prisoners, or by violent offenders reoffending).

I"m guessing media takeovers are acceptable if the place already went Alarmed; before that there's an actual studio-takeover which might involve pushing someone out of the way.

As for activations: no credit card fraud, no hacking, no prostitution, arguably no brownies, no profitable Liberal Tailoring (since no Fine Cloth), and, if in Nightmare Mode, effectively no Guardian because the Firemen will burn it every time.

So: writing to newspapers, selling art/music/T-shirts, volunteering, asking donations, media takeovers*, and I'm hard pressed to think of much else one could accomplish.  Maybe opening rabbit cages (is disruption of research animals "immoral"?), but genetic animals might rampage and cause violence. (Smashing machinery is certainly violent if theft is!)

*Come to think of it, "no lying or manipulation" would include no Disguise/Bluff.  Getting out just got tougher!

I'd say it's possible, but would be even more of a grindfest.
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ed boy

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2012, 06:06:40 am »

I've made a few attempts on the no seduction+no crime+no active recruits challenge, and I'm having dissapointing progress. I've had the founder write to newspapers with 15 skill and seven fireman sleeper agents promoting liberalism with effectiveness between 60% and 80% for about seven years, and public opinion on expanding free speech is sitting at 0%. I've had other laws (Gun control and Nuclear power) briefly go to C (and once M), but free speech is a difficult one. Is there a better sleeper for free speech than firemen, or a better activity than newspaper writing?
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BoxOfAids

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Re: Taking the "Crime" out of "Liberal Crime Squad"...
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2012, 09:43:10 am »

I've made a few attempts on the no seduction+no crime+no active recruits challenge, and I'm having dissapointing progress. I've had the founder write to newspapers with 15 skill and seven fireman sleeper agents promoting liberalism with effectiveness between 60% and 80% for about seven years, and public opinion on expanding free speech is sitting at 0%. I've had other laws (Gun control and Nuclear power) briefly go to C (and once M), but free speech is a difficult one. Is there a better sleeper for free speech than firemen, or a better activity than newspaper writing?
I'm actually not sure if Firemen affect issues at all as sleepers. I know firefighters do, from the code:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But I'm not sure if Firemen are included in that. If they're not included as Firefighters, then they each affect a random issue, and not Free Speech specifically. Seems like this code is for if you have firefighter sleepers, then the free speech issue drops to C+, then suddenly they start adding power, but they do nothing otherwise. Again, still not sure if Firemen are included in Firefighters (though I doubt it).

It seems like the best ones to have for free speech would be Agents, Conservative Judges, and Actors (they all affect Free Speech laws, in addition to others). Also it seems like Radio Personalities and New Anchors affect most, if not all, of the issues (if I'm reading this right). But they lose power as people lose trust in AM Radio and Cable News, respectively.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 10:24:54 am by BoxOfAids »
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