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[Rafal99]

While we are complaining about UI, I would like to add my two cents. I don't really care that much about wasting dwarves labor, what is worse is wasting players labor - hundreds of keypresses to get simple things done! My two biggest issues at the moment are:

1. Constructing:
Why do I have to scroll through 5 pages of materials and select the one I want for EVERY SINGLE wall or floor designation!? And again, and again, and again as if it couldn't just remember the last materials used... This is tens of keypresses wasted for every designation and for me is the worst thing in the current UI.

2. Trading screen:
If only it could have the same Filter and Sort functionality as the "Bring Items To Depot" screen has... Plus some sort of mass selection, like select all items by filter.
Because right not it takes hundreds of keypresses and tons of time to get throught the trading. 50 bins of crafts - Enter, Down, Enter, Dows, Enter, Down, etc...

Discuss.

[[5th]Lupin]

To be honest, after that flurry of versions earlier this year (or was that last year?), the longer he works on this version the better. I'd rather wait a half year for a version with a ton of new features than having to make a new fort every two weeks due to the bugs/new features in each new version.

[Footkerchief]

To be honest, after that flurry of versions earlier this year (or was that last year?), the longer he works on this version the better. I'd rather wait a half year for a version with a ton of new features than having to make a new fort every two weeks due to the bugs/new features in each new version.

I prefer occasional complete updates rather than frequent incomplete ones with bugs followed by 3-4 updates fixing said game-breaking bugs.

DF releases don't work like that.

The "frequent incomplete" releases preceding this release cycle generally required one (1) followup release, not 3-4, and that release came within a couple days.  In contrast, the 31.01 release required months of followup work -- 31.02 through 31.12 (July 25, almost 4 months later) all had fixes for game-breaking crashes (with the exception of 31.04, which integrated the 40d* rendering updates).  19-month release cycle => 4 months of bugfixing.

32a (the first 3D release) followed a similar pattern -- it was followed by 6 bugfix releases over almost 2 months.  9.5 months of work => 2 months of bugfixing.  Actually, that's more than similar -- it's almost exactly the same ratio, 1 month of bugfixing for every 4.75 months of work.

So, to follow up on my earlier prediction of a Jan 23 March 1 release, I'm predicting about 2.2 months of bugfixing after that, putting us right back at April 1st for a reasonably playable version.

"Occasional complete releases" don't happen in DF.  A longer release cycle means a longer bugfix cycle, no getting around it.

[Quarterblue]

While we are complaining about UI, I would like to add my two cents. I don't really care that much about wasting dwarves labor, what is worse is wasting players labor - hundreds of keypresses to get simple things done! My two biggest issues at the moment are:

1. Constructing:
Why do I have to scroll through 5 pages of materials and select the one I want for EVERY SINGLE wall or floor designation!? And again, and again, and again as if it couldn't just remember the last materials used... This is tens of keypresses wasted for every designation and for me is the worst thing in the current UI.

2. Trading screen:
If only it could have the same Filter and Sort functionality as the "Bring Items To Depot" screen has... Plus some sort of mass selection, like select all items by filter.
Because right not it takes hundreds of keypresses and tons of time to get throught the trading. 50 bins of crafts - Enter, Down, Enter, Dows, Enter, Down, etc...

Discuss.

While complaining about the release is understandable, it is useless to complain about the UI since it won't be taken care of before 2020, according to Toady's planning (that actually means 2026).

[Kogut]

While complaining about the release is understandable, it is useless to complain about the UI since it won't be taken care of before 2020, according to Toady's planning (that actually means 2026).

There are UI improvements in new release (cannot follow orders, unit list).

[Rafal99]

While complaining about the release is understandable, it is useless to complain about the UI since it won't be taken care of before 2020, according to Toady's planning (that actually means 2026).

There are UI improvements in new release (cannot follow orders, unit list).

Also multi z-level digging/stairs designations.
Toady adds UI improvements occasionally, too bad it happens so rarely, and things like adding new animals noone heard about have higher priority...

Also with 2020 do you mean when all core elements of the game are finished?
Well that will probably never happen as with every feature implemented the plans grow with another few (which not a bad thing in itself).

[i2amroy]

Toady adds UI improvements occasionally, too bad it happens so rarely, and things like adding new animals noone heard about have higher priority...

Animals no one has heard of except those who did the donation runs that is. As for the release date, I'm hoping for Thanksgiving (though I doubt it), then Christmas, and then April Fool's day just for the laughs again.

[Cruxador]

Toady adds UI improvements occasionally, too bad it happens so rarely, and things like adding new animals noone heard about have higher priority...

Animals no one has heard of except those who did the donation runs that is. As for the release date, I'm hoping for Thanksgiving (though I doubt it), then Christmas, and then April Fool's day just for the laughs again.

You don't know those animals? Odd. I knew all but like three of them even prior to looking them up during the sponsorship drive.

[Kogut]

Toady adds UI improvements occasionally, too bad it happens so rarely, and things like adding new animals noone heard about have higher priority...

It was Animal Sponsorship Drive, resulting in rain of money.

[Michael]

o-r-o to collect refuse from outside. Ayup, problem solved.

I know about the orders menu.  But flipping that switch brings micromanagement problems of it's own.  If something dies actually outside, then you have to manually stop your dwarves from running out to grab corpses.  (The UI fix for that would be simple -- we just need a way to override the games determination of inside/outside for Orders purposes.  It would fit nicely under the burrows menu.)

Why don't you just collect the crafts in bins in the stockpile closest to your workshop, and then have the workshop closest to the trade depot take the bins slightly before the caravan arrives? That seems to be a lot more simpler.

I'm concerned that with two valid stockpiles at once, dwarves may haul single crafts to the wrong one.  Only full bins (and possibly one partial per caravan) should make the long haul.

Wait, why would you move the crafts away from the trade depot? I make sure my crafts stockpile can't accept any more crafts before I release unsold crafts, that way there will be no hauling to the crafts stuck in the depot. Next season I just mark them and they're up for trading instantly.

To consolidate them so that empty bins can be returned to general use.  I sell off the cheapest crafts first so I have a concentrated supply of value remaining if I want to splurge next caravan.  So post-sale many bins could be partially full.
Also I need to forbid them all to prevent them from being long-hauled back to the workshop's consolidation pile.  (The pile I'm deliberately hauling to is next door.) If they are pulled out of the depot it's easy to use d-b-f to do that.

[Urist Imiknorris]

o-r-o to collect refuse from outside. Ayup, problem solved.

I know about the orders menu.  But flipping that switch brings micromanagement problems of it's own.  If something dies actually outside, then you have to manually stop your dwarves from running out to grab corpses.  (The UI fix for that would be simple -- we just need a way to override the games determination of inside/outside for Orders purposes.  It would fit nicely under the burrows menu.)

o-F to change settings for forbidding things on death - you can choose to autoforbid corpses and everything they're carrying.

[Sutremaine]

I'd rather wait a half year for a version with a ton of new features than having to make a new fort every two weeks due to the bugs/new features in each new version.

You don't have to. Even if you do feel compelled to download the new version, sometimes you can slot the old save in the new install and get the new features anyway. There was one person who updated that way and got a mood demanding yarn, which didn't exist in the version the fortress was genned in. Getting yarn in-game would have been impossible because there were no materials with the necessary tags, but it was possible to add them since the fortress was now running on a game version which could handle yarn.

[Number7]

If we had to pay for the game, then i'd expect the versions to come out faster.

but we dont, and its free. so stop complaining xD

[[5th]Lupin]

Sorry if my post came off sounding bitchy, it was 5 in the morning and I didn't sleep.

What I was meaning to say was that Toady should take his time with each version and not cave into demands to release things before they're ready.

I really don't care about the bugs personally. The main thing that bothered me during the release spree was that I had to constantly  convert my personal mods (a ton of them) which sometimes took several hours, even with winmerge.

[Rafal99]

Toady adds UI improvements occasionally, too bad it happens so rarely, and things like adding new animals noone heard about have higher priority...

It was Animal Sponsorship Drive, resulting in rain of money.

Rain of money as 10$ per animal that takes about a day to implement? (yeah I exaggerate but it is not that far from it)
Awesome idea indeed...

Now imagine Interface Fixes Sponsorship Drive. Both Toady and the community would benefit much more from it.