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[thistleknot]

Can we have a good discussion on how to use, train, post military units?

I set up my "Active/Training" alert schedule for what I want my troops to do in normal times. I also have an alert called "Live Training", which has it's schedule set so all of my melee squads defend my "melee training" burrow every month, which is the room that I pit goblins into for, well, live training. So when I want to do live training, I set my melee squads to the Live Training alert, and they all proceed to the training room.

One wall of the training room is fortifications, behind which is a hallway. There is a burrow called "Archery Training" that covers that hallway. The archer squads are all scheduled to defend that burrow in the Live Training schedule. So when I put them on the Live Training alert, they go into that hallway behind the fortifications and are ready to shoot whatever gets dropped in the training room. It's better than stationing them there with the squad orders, because half of them would end up in the training room instead of in the hallway if I station them. Defending a burrow makes all of them go into the burrow. When the training is over I switch all squads back to the Active/training alert and they go back to whatever they would normally be doing that month.

You can also use this during attacks. Assuming you have an alert set up for getting your civilians into a burrow, you can also set up a schedule that sends each squad to where you want them during an attack. You have to put each squad on that alert (just setting the civilian alert doesn't effect your squads), but it's easy to remember to do, and then your archers go to their shooting spots, and your melee troops go to wherever you want them.

It's actually quite useful, once you learn to use it.

is from http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=95816.msg2734188#msg2734188

I'm also looking for how to properly train your militia with ensuring you have the right units in a squad (teacher, angry dorfs, etc).

So, who's got some good advice?

Also, advice on tactical stuff is sought.

[Shinotsa]

Hmm, my only advice is that you may want to take food and drink off of your soldier's equipment so you don't wind up with the "Soldier: Cannot follow orders" bug that's destroyed my last two fortresses. At least this is what I plan to try when I next get some time.

Other suggestions would be to test markdwarf squads on little critters or goblins in a fortification room to make sure that they're using ammo and not just trying to beat things to death with a bone crossbow. I've also heard that it is more effective to make many squads of 2-3 rather than one squad of 10 because your dwarves are more likely to spar and thus gain more experience.

Tactically you're pretty much screwed unless you wish to practice dwarven optometry (blinding dwarves) so that you can actually control them after they've seen the enemy. The only thing I could suggest would be a dodge trap (a 1 tile wide walkway with a drop on either side) leading to your walls while your marksdwarves fire down upon the enemy. Just be sure to keep the resulting fight off of the dodge trap so that your dwarves don't try avoiding a spinning ☼Cave Spider Silk Sock☼ by leaping to their demise.

I recall a thread testing the effect of personality on created item quality and it seemed to have a marginal (<1% IIRC) difference in outcomes. Judging from this I'm not sure if or to what degree personality affects military performance. Of course having fast healers who don't mind going outside always helps.

[khearn]

One thing I've found useful to keep my dwarves from rushing out into the dodge traps is to have a view block after the traps.

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.g..            .X.X.X....☺..
....g.^.^.^.^.^...X.X.....☺..
..g.            .X.X.X....☺..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The goblins come from the left, and your dwarves are posted on the right, behind the checkerboard of walls. They can't see the goblins until the goblins get past the traps and through the checkerboard. Then they see them and rush in to attack. Also useful if the goblins are archers.

[Keldane]

One thing I've found useful to keep my dwarves from rushing out into the dodge traps is to have a view block after the traps.

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.g..            .X.X.X....☺..
....g.^.^.^.^.^...X.X.....☺..
..g.            .X.X.X....☺..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The goblins come from the left, and your dwarves are posted on the right, behind the checkerboard of walls. They can't see the goblins until the goblins get past the traps and through the checkerboard. Then they see them and rush in to attack. Also useful if the goblins are archers.

I have to say, that is an incredibly awesome idea. I think I have no choice but to employ this method in the future.

[Masta Crouton]

draft 50 dwarves. military skills not needed. the ones who live? boom, efficient military.


armok is most pleased with pointless death!

[Kogut]

One thing I've found useful to keep my dwarves from rushing out into the dodge traps is to have a view block after the traps.

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.g..            .X.X.X....☺..
....g.^.^.^.^.^...X.X.....☺..
..g.            .X.X.X....☺..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The goblins come from the left, and your dwarves are posted on the right, behind the checkerboard of walls. They can't see the goblins until the goblins get past the traps and through the checkerboard. Then they see them and rush in to attack. Also useful if the goblins are archers.

I have to say, that is an incredibly awesome idea. I think I have no choice but to employ this method in the future.

*b-C-w, w, w, w, w, w* Thanks!

[Loud Whispers]

Hmm, my only advice is that you may want to take food and drink off of your soldier's equipment so you don't wind up with the "Soldier: Cannot follow orders" bug that's destroyed my last two fortresses. At least this is what I plan to try when I next get some time.

Other suggestions would be to test markdwarf squads on little critters or goblins in a fortification room to make sure that they're using ammo and not just trying to beat things to death with a bone crossbow. I've also heard that it is more effective to make many squads of 2-3 rather than one squad of 10 because your dwarves are more likely to spar and thus gain more experience.

Tactically you're pretty much screwed unless you wish to practice dwarven optometry (blinding dwarves) so that you can actually control them after they've seen the enemy. The only thing I could suggest would be a dodge trap (a 1 tile wide walkway with a drop on either side) leading to your walls while your marksdwarves fire down upon the enemy. Just be sure to keep the resulting fight off of the dodge trap so that your dwarves don't try avoiding a spinning ☼Cave Spider Silk Sock☼ by leaping to their demise.

I recall a thread testing the effect of personality on created item quality and it seemed to have a marginal (<1% IIRC) difference in outcomes. Judging from this I'm not sure if or to what degree personality affects military performance. Of course having fast healers who don't mind going outside always helps.

My entire fortress guard is blind 

It doesn't stop them killing EVERYTHING they bump into, but they don't block anything *With their weapons at least.
It's slightly amusing, I feel sad that I killed the Titan that caused the blindness, had no idea how useful it is

[Greiger]

Making a special alert for sieges and giving a schedule order to your marksdwarf squad to defend a special burrow that only includes tiles next to the fortifications over your front gate helps immensely in getting marksdwarves to be effective.

When told to defend a burrow they will not leave it except to get ammo(or eat drink and sleep).  That allows your entire marksdwarf squad to fire at the enemy, instead of the one or two that happen to be close to the fortifications regular station orders do.


Also, make sure if you use dodging traps, any fallen goblins that somehow manage to survive have a way to get out of the pit (preferably still outside your fortress).  Squad leaders are often the first to fall into those, and sometimes if the rest of the squad can't reach their leader they stall and stand in place instead of moving forward.   

While that sounds good it isn't.  They will often stall outside of the range of your archers, which requires you to send a squad out to deal with them...in the middle of your dodging pit bridge...if the goblin squad happens to be archers it is even worse, as they will still open fire upon your squad, again, while they are on the dodging bridge.

[Oaktree]

Making a special alert for sieges and giving a schedule order to your marksdwarf squad to defend a special burrow that only includes tiles next to the fortifications over your front gate helps immensely in getting marksdwarves to be effective.

When told to defend a burrow they will not leave it except to get ammo(or eat drink and sleep).  That allows your entire marksdwarf squad to fire at the enemy, instead of the one or two that happen to be close to the fortifications regular station orders do.


Also, make sure if you use dodging traps, any fallen goblins that somehow manage to survive have a way to get out of the pit (preferably still outside your fortress).  Squad leaders are often the first to fall into those, and sometimes if the rest of the squad can't reach their leader they stall and stand in place instead of moving forward.   

While that sounds good it isn't.  They will often stall outside of the range of your archers, which requires you to send a squad out to deal with them...in the middle of your dodging pit bridge...if the goblin squad happens to be archers it is even worse, as they will still open fire upon your squad, again, while they are on the dodging bridge.

And that is why I have a cover for my magma pit.  Cover the pit before you send your squad out to beat on the goblins who are camping.

Though I also have a bridge that raises to block the tunnel on the far side of the dodging bridge.  So it raises to trap the goblins in, or raises to allow me to mass melee dwarves with supporting marksdwarves just inside it to allow a short range rush on the goblins waiting on the far side.

[thistleknot]

I've learned a method of dumping enemies into a pit that falls directly into the barracks.  As long as dwarves are training at any given schedule, they will have a live target to attack.

No levers required.

I recommend building the cage around the pit, then dbc, dbd the items of the creature, then undump the cage, then pit the creature.

Someone said you can put an animal stockpile around the pit to make it easier, but I found doing so put animal traps/cages near the pit, as well as other caged animals that you don't really care to combat.  So building it, then dumping the creature was the way to go.

[NecroRebel]

Someone said you can put an animal stockpile around the pit to make it easier, but I found doing so put animal traps/cages near the pit, as well as other caged animals that you don't really care to combat.  So building it, then dumping the creature was the way to go.

You're supposed to use a custom animal stockpile that doesn't accept empty cages or animal traps and only accepts goblins and/or other hostiles.

[khearn]

One thing I've found useful to keep my dwarves from rushing out into the dodge traps is to have a view block after the traps.

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.g..            .X.X.X....☺..
....g.^.^.^.^.^...X.X.....☺..
..g.            .X.X.X....☺..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The goblins come from the left, and your dwarves are posted on the right, behind the checkerboard of walls. They can't see the goblins until the goblins get past the traps and through the checkerboard. Then they see them and rush in to attack. Also useful if the goblins are archers.

As long as this thread has been necro'd, I have an update to the above technique. Since we now need 3-tile wide access to trade depots, you don't want to have those walls there most of the time. So build the checkerboard with floodgates and link them all to one lever. Leave them open normally and the traders' wagons should* be able to get through, and close them when under attack.

* I haven't actually confirmed this in 34.0X, but wagons should be able to path over open floodgates. I can't see why they wouldn't.

[Hyndis]

This:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-28999-gatehouse

Wall off the entire edge of the map except for a small entryway. Drawbridges work well for that. Build a barracks there and assign a large number of dwarves there. Crossbows are highly effective when massed, though some edged weapons or pickaxes are always good to mix in with the crossbow dwarves.

Dwarves never go off duty. They are in the military until they die. They will rapidly accumulate experience in a surprisingly short period of time.

As you can see, its an extremely effective defensive system.

[Jingles]

One thing I've found useful to keep my dwarves from rushing out into the dodge traps is to have a view block after the traps.

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.g..            .X.X.X....☺..
....g.^.^.^.^.^...X.X.....☺..
..g.            .X.X.X....☺..
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The goblins come from the left, and your dwarves are posted on the right, behind the checkerboard of walls. They can't see the goblins until the goblins get past the traps and through the checkerboard. Then they see them and rush in to attack. Also useful if the goblins are archers.

As long as this thread has been necro'd, I have an update to the above technique. Since we now need 3-tile wide access to trade depots, you don't want to have those walls there most of the time. So build the checkerboard with floodgates and link them all to one lever. Leave them open normally and the traders' wagons should* be able to get through, and close them when under attack.

* I haven't actually confirmed this in 34.0X, but wagons should be able to path over open floodgates. I can't see why they wouldn't.

I think you could also block line of sight with a ramp up and then back down.  It requires no input and will still allow wagons if it's three wide.

[TheGazebo]

When told to defend a burrow they will not leave it except to get ammo(or eat drink and sleep)

If they will leave the burrow they are defending to retreive ammo will they also rush out into the seige to retrieve the equipment of fallen comrades? I am so sick of losing legendary warriors because they sensed a blood soaked +sock+ in the goblin horde that was just too tempting for them