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[Flying Dice]

On this chapter in "Dumb builds that shouldn't work but somehow do...".

Don't get me wrong, the ERPPC quirks are great -- 20% cooldown reduction, the usual 50% velocity increase, and a total -50% to heat gen from the generic+specific quirks. And then 25% to ballistic velocity and cooldown.

But then it only has a single energy hardpoint, and four ballistic hardpoints, and no non-ERPPC energy quirks except the CDR and 30% of the heat gen. Just one more energy hardpoint would make it amazing, but as it is you're taking a 40t medium whose only viable builds are a single ERPPC with four MGs or one AC/2. If it were a 25-30t light that could do 130kph, that'd be pretty sweet, but it ain't. It should be a pile of crap that does terrible damage (and it is if you do the 4xMG backup), but somehow just adding the AC/2 makes it work really, really well.

And I don't know why. The constant facetime the AC/2 needs to get out decent damage should just mean that you die faster in that deathtrap, but it doesn't. For some reason. *throws arms up* Not even going to think about it any more.

[MrRoboto75]

I was going to save up C-Bux to grab my first inner sphere mech, but the trial Hunch IIC is tempting me to get that instead.  I do fairly consistently well in that mech.  Do decent damage done, survive matches regularly, usually do the KMDD challenge in one try.

I also took the trial Grasshopper for a spin.  Three large pulses and two small pulses.  By fluke I did stupidly well, got 1000 damage done and 5 KMDD's.  Mostly because I was in a 2v2 on our base against a warhawk and a timberwolf.  Both were content to shoot my smaller teammate while I lasered them in the back repeatedly.

[gimlet]

Just be aware that clan XL engines are a different breed from IS XL engines and if you want to go faster than the plodding 56 or so kph that the stock engine gives it, you'll have to spend another 4-5mil on a bigger clan XL engine. I did not know that before I got mine and it was an unpleasant surprise.     And none of the stock engines from the other clan non-omnimechs will fit, so no synergy there.   Also, no omnipods so the hardpoints you get are the ones you will have to live with (but they're pretty decent on the variants I have).

That being said I do kinda like mine, and will certainly like it more when I can splash out for a bigger engine

[Damiac]

So I bought myself a heavy, decided to go with the cataphracts.  Started with the 0xp, I really wanted something with ECM.
I could use some help coming up with a good build, or to squeeze a little more performance out of my current builds.

I've tried two main builds, one was 3 LPL, the stock std 180 engine, and all the double heat sinks I can jam onto it.  End up with a cooling efficiency of 70%, and 5.4 sustained dps, but only 33 damage alpha.  Not bad, and decent range make this an easy one to play and do decently well in.

The other is the metamechs build (but I stumbled onto it myself first).  An AC20 and 4MLs. 
40 damage alpha, but it'll overheat after 3 salvos.  3 salvos will also kill or very heavily damage a lot of mechs.  Shortish range, 300m for full damage.  The AC20 on the RT is also a bit hard to aim, the torso convergence certainly isn't great on this thing.  Makes it tough to hit with the AC20 after shielding or cresting a hill, especially given what a noob I am...

Now, high sustained DPS is really nice, but of course, you don't usually just get to stand there and unload on an enemy all day, so some of that cooling is kind of a waste on build 1, and I don't know what I can really do about that.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=b5feaadd897b773befe06f7fe2f3556eec45cea6


Build 2 can bring a LOT of frontloaded damage and is a terror within 300m, but it's hard to get into that situation in the first place.  IF I have to crest a hill there's no way I'm getting that ac20 on target before I eat an alpha...
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=979b406ff955e3e3668b79cd9c524d2b43078908

As you can see, both are completely tied up slotwise, so even an XL engine doesn't do much to get me out of the jam, unless I get a big enough one to move a few heatsinks into maybe...

I feel that build 1 would really be a lot better if I could squeeze an AC5 or 10 onto it somehow, and let me land bigger alphas and not be so heat neutral.

Build 2... a bigger engine and more heatsinks would help, but is an XL engine a good idea on a brawling cataphract?

[Flying Dice]

You're pretty much forced to run one on most of them. The Ilya Muromets is the only one with ballistic hardpoints that could reasonably called good, and you still need to run an XL on that to get the best build in. Most only have that single RT hardpoint (except the 3D, which is a shittier IM, and the 4X, which is just plain shit), so you're gonna be stuffing an AC/10 (or LB 10-X) in there. I say that because, in an extra-shitty twist, you don't have the room in the side torsos to mount both an AC/20 and an XL engine. XL needs 3 crit slots, AC/20 needs 10, you only have 12 to work with.

They're fragile, but the 'mech is very skinny side-on, so with good torso twisting you can spread a lot of damage. If you manage that well you'll typically end up with almost no armor left anywhere. It also, somewhat counter-intuitively, helps that the delineations between CT and side torsos are very clear on the CTFs, so most people will focus their damage on your CT if given the choice-in other words, they usually won't intentionally pop a side torso if it isn't already open (and if it is, you can shield it very effectively). You get ~80pt armor on your front CT and only ~52 on your sides, so that's actually more important than it sounds like.

Still gonna die fast if you're the point of the spear though. When you're in a CTF it's very binary: either people shoot you first and you die without doing much, or they shoot your teammates first and you do a shitload of damage.

Suffice to say, there's a reason why I only have the IM and the 0XP and am waiting on the loyalty reward 3L variant. Those two are the only acceptable ones. The 3L will probably join them (especially if it has LB-10X quirks, considering it comes stock with one), since it also gets MASC, the good CTF max engine size, and four energy hardpoints, which could make for a nice 'mech if it all falls out right. The rest are pretty trash and have been for a long time.

[Damiac]

I'm liking my cataphract, to be honest, although it would be lovely if it had 2 ballistic hardpoints instead of just 1. 

I find that shielding and twisting is very easy with this mech, which is good, this is the first mech I've piloted with arms that can actually shield (My others are locusts and blackjacks).  I tend to finish matches with both arms blown off, my ct half cored, and my legs in remarkably good shape(when I survive to the end).  I can really disrupt enemy lines, and the ECM makes flanking actually kinda possible, even with the slow engine.

My favorite thing to do is get a few mechs to march behind enemy lines with me, and go murder their LRM catapults.  It just feels like cataphracts are catapult kryptonite, I just get in their face and let loose, they die in 2 or 3 salvos usually, and I don't know if it's the mech or the pilots, but they almost never twist, and when they do, that big nose is still easy to hit.

[Rince Wind]

To be fair, you can use lights for that.
For the tournament I use the trial Jenner IIC, and 2 alphas in the back kill most anything if they hit well. Yesterday a Stalker was on the recieving end of this. -> solo kill
Though I admit that I would gladly give up one of the SRM2s for ECM.

[Knave]

To be fair, you can use lights for that.
For the tournament I use the trial Jenner IIC, and 2 alphas in the back kill most anything if they hit well. Yesterday a Stalker was on the recieving end of this. -> solo kill
Though I admit that I would gladly give up one of the SRM2s for ECM.

Definitely agree. I'm just about finished mastering the IS Jenner, and one thing I realized is that I really wish it had ECM. Having that ability to avoid targeting is so nice and the lights I see always doing really well consistently all seem to have it.

Currently running around with a 300xl engine, 3x ML and 1x ErPPC makes for some fun times running around and popping people in the back

[Damiac]

The trial missile jenner is awesome, fair point about the lights being able to kill the catapults pretty easily.

But the cataphract can do it while taking fire, and also tank what fire there is from the flanks for the squishier guys.  A light can get in and maybe kill an isolated lrm boat, sure, and maybe even start a squirrel chase.  A cataphract can do that when the lrm boat isn't totally isolated, and it can kill the backup that arrives.

Of course, the cataphract also can't just run away and vanish light a fast light can.  So a solo flank attempt is not a great idea with them, but with a small team it's awesome!

[Flying Dice]

You don't really need ECM on most maps if you have radar dep and decent piloting skills. It also makes backstabbing trickier since you have to toggle it off before you move in and then flip back on once you shoot. Still very nice in most circumstances though.

[Damiac]

Wait, why do you need to toggle off your ECM for a backstab? I thought it only showed the "low signal" stuff if you were within something like 150m.

[Knave]

No Radar Dep yet
Have to save up a bit more GXP I think, but it's definitely first on my list to unlock.

[Flying Dice]

Wait, why do you need to toggle off your ECM for a backstab? I thought it only showed the "low signal" stuff if you were within something like 150m.

A couple reasons: If you're piloting something with bad convergence, if you're piloting something that wants to transition into a brawl because it can't one-tap, if you're boating SRMs and want to minimize spread...

Most importantly, because you don't have ESP and there could be other enemies that you didn't notice. It's always safer to assume that you're not safe while flanking like that. ECM is great when you're already in a fight and when moving far away from enemies/sniping, but when you're sneaking up the chance of another enemy being close enough to catch interference (thus telling them and their whole team that you're around) is markedly greater than one catching a glimpse that procs the "new target" warble without physically seeing you.

Unless you're shooting from multiple-hundred meter ranges you're going to be within range for them to hit R anyways, so leaving it on just lets them have a chance of knowing you're there without seeing you. Obviously once the target makes you it's better to have it on.

[Rince Wind]

Ah, that is what low signal means.
And your own Art IV is affected by your ECM?

[Flying Dice]

No, but even with ArtIV the spread is still kinda crap out at 300m. Or, at least, much better at close range. If you get up to ~50-100m against a stationary target's back it's a guaranteed kill, but out at 250-300 you'll probably need a second volley, which gives them time to react and turn around.