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Author Topic: Mechwarrior Online  (Read 108376 times)

Rince Wind

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #660 on: October 03, 2016, 09:48:31 am »

Fun fact: the current trial HBK IIC has half a ton of AC ammo.
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Wiles

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #661 on: October 03, 2016, 09:49:21 am »

Oh I wasn't trying to imply that clans could mount inner sphere autocannons, I was just trying to say they aren't at an ammo disadvantage comparatively.

The regular clan autocannons are just placeholders and are inferior to the clan UACs. They spread damage the same, they take more crit slots and they weigh same. They have been placeholders for a very long time though, I don't know what they plan on doing with them. I think they should just remove them and give the ability to use slugs in the LBx autocannons like you're supposed to be able to.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 09:51:00 am by Wiles »
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Rince Wind

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #662 on: October 03, 2016, 09:54:05 am »

But that would open another can of worms. Because LBXs are strictly better than normal ones there wouldn't be a reason to mount those. So you might need the special ammo...
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Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #663 on: October 03, 2016, 10:18:35 am »

They could start by making the cACs smaller+lighter than the cUACs.
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #664 on: October 03, 2016, 02:57:23 pm »

They could start by making the cACs smaller+lighter than the cUACs.

I don't see them ever doing that. cACs are supposed to have the same weight/slots as cLBX ('cause they are cLBX) and PGI doesn't change the construction rules.

They also don't do much coding, so they'll probably never add ammo switching, so we're going to have cACs indefinitely. They could maybe adjust pellet counts or cooldown rates to make them not strictly inferior to cUACs, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Rince Wind

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #665 on: October 03, 2016, 04:05:19 pm »

They are inferior in the TT I think, so I'd think they just stay bad.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #666 on: October 03, 2016, 04:54:40 pm »

TBH there's not much point discussing MWO ACs in terms of tabletop, considering that they're heavily simplified and generalized. They're already functionally ignoring tabletop when it comes to this (admittedly, with cause, it'd probably be a massive pain to provide most/all of the real variants and then also have accurate mechanical performance, animations, projectiles, &c., easily ten or twenty times what they had to do for the ACs we have right now).

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see shit like LACs, UACs that behave like they do in tabletop, differentiation between UACs and Rotary ACs (which is what the IS "UAC/5" in MWO actually is, and what the cUACs are treated as, not including the damage splitting), LB-Xes that can swap ammunition types, company variants with different performance profiles - heck, maybe even HVACs. But we're almost certainly not going to, so there's no point splitting hairs over parts of the MWO AC mechanics matching tabletop when the broad strokes already don't; just balance that shit properly, yanno?
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Rince Wind

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #667 on: October 03, 2016, 05:07:21 pm »

But they seem to try to keep the general feel of the weapons and their place in relation to each other.

That they are changing a lot of things is obvious, as otherwise clan would just slaughter IS, same with the lesser efficency of the DHSs.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #668 on: October 03, 2016, 06:31:21 pm »

Not really? I mean, the cUACs are basically frankenguns - the jamming is lifted from rotaries, the performance is just a normal manufacturer's variation on a standard AC, the double-tap (as with the IS UAC/5) is as far as I can tell a PGI fabrication. Nothing about them (or the UAC/5) is actually indicative of a tabletop UAC.

In BTech UACs are literally just autocannons that have variable fire, they can either function like standard ACs or fire twice as fast. The tradeoffs are increased heat generation, shaking the mounting pretty badly, and (after long periods of rapid fire) eventually fusing a round in the chamber, the last of which mission-killed the UAC.

The IS "UAC/5" is a Rotary AC, the cUACs are just plain old ACs with the Rotary jamming mechanic slapped on top.

Incidentally, Rotaries were significant because they actually out-damaged UACs (and could fire at up to 6x the speed of standard ACs) while removing the chance of having a round fuse with the chamber due to heat. Their only downsides were increased heat gen and a jam chance which increased with each extra shot you took in a given turn.

Functionally speaking and according to tabletop crunch and fluff there are no UACs in MWO, just three variants of each AC, the Rotary AC/5, and the neutered LB-X ACs. The total number of AC variants in the game is about the same as the total number of manufacturer variants of two types of plain-jane AC in BTech lore, never mind UACs, LACs, Rotary ACs, HVACs, LB-Xes, and so forth.

S'why I say they should just balance it as is - if they're not going to give a toss about canon there's no point trying to pretend to respect it instead of balancing things properly. As is, cACs are flatly inferior to all other types, with basically no reason to take them instead of cUACs or even cLB-Xes.  :-\
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #669 on: October 03, 2016, 08:03:52 pm »

I'm not really sure what your issue is with Ultra ACs, honestly. I really don't see what they do in game that they don't do in TT, with the exception that they can unjam.

Maybe I'm missing something about how they work in MWO, but they seem... pretty correct to me?

Edit: I've double checked all the stats for TT and MWO, and the only thing I've seen that doesn't appear right is the IS AC/5 has 80 more meters of range than it should, resulting in it being longer ranged than the IS UAC/5. But that's the AC/5's fault, not the UAC/5's...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 08:17:09 pm by Kanil »
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

MrRoboto75

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #670 on: October 03, 2016, 09:29:58 pm »

Well, my timberwolf C has all the basic skills unlocked.  Now just to buy two more of them.

Although actually I'm considering a medium mech next.  Probably a centurion.  I have about 2.5 mil c-bucks, but I'll probably need around 4 mil.
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I consume
I purchase
I consume again

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #671 on: October 04, 2016, 12:51:35 am »

I'm not really sure what your issue is with Ultra ACs, honestly. I really don't see what they do in game that they don't do in TT, with the exception that they can unjam.

Maybe I'm missing something about how they work in MWO, but they seem... pretty correct to me?

Edit: I've double checked all the stats for TT and MWO, and the only thing I've seen that doesn't appear right is the IS AC/5 has 80 more meters of range than it should, resulting in it being longer ranged than the IS UAC/5. But that's the AC/5's fault, not the UAC/5's...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 01:25:55 am by Flying Dice »
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #672 on: October 04, 2016, 01:50:34 am »

I still don't get why you don't think the MWO UAC isn't like the TT UAC. It's... a largely faithful reproduction of the TT weapon system pretty much?

TT: AC/5 fires one round every 10 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 10 seconds, or two rounds every 10 seconds with a ~3% chance to permanently jam for the rest of the battle.
MWO: AC/5 fires one round every 1.66 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 1.66 seconds, or two rounds every 1.66 with a ~15% chance to temporarily jam for a few seconds.
Weight, damage, crit slots, range and such are all identical to their TT counterparts as well.

I don't get how you get "UAC/5 is a RAC" and "cUAC is an amalgamation" out of that. Just because the jam isn't permanent?

Spoiler: Other thoughts. (click to show/hide)
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

se5a

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #673 on: October 04, 2016, 03:16:57 am »

aww I missed you guys playing together.
my stalker now has 4ERLL, and for when I get closer 2x6 SRM and an MPL.
...and 10 heat sinks.
AMS to help with the lurm thrown in for luck .
I still overheat though, especially if I start trying to alpha.   
On chain the ERLL are not too bad, in fact I've even put the cooldown module for them on, as well as the extended range.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 03:29:22 am by se5a »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #674 on: October 04, 2016, 08:02:44 am »

I still don't get why you don't think the MWO UAC isn't like the TT UAC. It's... a largely faithful reproduction of the TT weapon system pretty much?

TT: AC/5 fires one round every 10 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 10 seconds, or two rounds every 10 seconds with a ~3% chance to permanently jam for the rest of the battle.
MWO: AC/5 fires one round every 1.66 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 1.66 seconds, or two rounds every 1.66 with a ~15% chance to temporarily jam for a few seconds.
Weight, damage, crit slots, range and such are all identical to their TT counterparts as well.

I don't get how you get "UAC/5 is a RAC" and "cUAC is an amalgamation" out of that. Just because the jam isn't permanent?
That's the main one, and it's a pretty honkin' big difference because it comes into play every time you fire. Every single time you do more than a single "shot per turn" you have a good chance of jamming. Unless I'm drastically misremembering, you could fire UACs at double-rate for a good while without worrying about misfiring, and jamming was still less likely for RACs than it is in MWO.

That's a massive difference in how they perform (both RACs and UACs) and how they're best used. In MWO you either double-tap or you spam a bunch and hope they don't all jam at once. In TT the tradeoff between UACs & RACs with ACs was that they couldn't carry special ammo and tended to waste ammo if you tried to spray them at longer ranges because of miss chances.

Ofc. it also helps that they literally made the UAC models RAC. The canon difference between ACs and UACs was that the latter used a specialized loading system. That was the principal difference between UACs and RACs as well, and why RAC jams were temporary while UAC misfires were mission-kills on the weapons: UACs heated up so much that a round would inevitably fuse in the single chamber of the single barrel. But then, if RACs fire three times faster still, why are their jams temporary? Because of the rotary in the name, they're gatling-style weapons with multiple barrels; their faster fire rate is because they rotate multiple barrels past the chamber rather than increasing the speed at which rounds are fired from the same barrel, and their temporary jamming is because jams are mechanical rather than thermal, simply rounds not being loaded properly during high-speed firing.

So the UACs are literally RACs with the firing rate nerfed.

Spoiler: Other thoughts. (click to show/hide)
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