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Author Topic: Mechwarrior Online  (Read 108467 times)

se5a

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #495 on: September 09, 2016, 02:44:21 pm »

I've gotten back into playin this recently.

I've got all three non realmoney ravens.
2x is set up with:
2ER LL
1 MR
AMS
with the advanced zoom I can do reasonably well on this setup. as long as I don't get picked on by another light, or get cornered by something heavier.

3L has:
1 pulse LL
Tag
Narc
I use this in a scouting/lurm support role. Initially I was doing fairly ok in this one, but I seem to have gone up a level or something, and lately as soon as the enemy spot a mech that has ECM, they just gun for it.

4x:
1 ER PPC
Tag
Narc
Another long range sniper, with a hanfull of narcs to get anything that gets close.
this one does well too, if I remmeber/can be bothered to swap out the advanced zoom.

I've got all three to elite, and all have XL 210 engines iirc, with a speed of 109.4
The setups can do pretty well if I can get myself in a position on the flank and don't become a target by a mech who's determined to chase me down no matter what.
seriously, I've had enemy mechs chase me right through the middle of my own team.

What do you guys do with your ravens?
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Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #496 on: September 09, 2016, 03:23:16 pm »

It's happening because the RVN-3L is a twofold sinner: everyone hates ECM lights, and the 3L has one of the most well-known and annoying builds in the game.

I run my Ravens with pretty standard builds, because they're all really damn good.

3L:
2x ERLL
ECM
XL 295

It's an absolute rat bastard sniper like this. You'll basically only get damaged or killed if you let yourself get ambushed by a pack of even faster lights or if you get in too close. Easy 300-400 damage every match, more if you can get a good position closer in. It's fast enough to flank safely, too. Only thing is, if you want to mount both ECM and the ERLLs, you need to either not take an extra heatsink in the engine and strip 6pt of armor from the left arm, or strip a lot more armor for the extra heatsink (not worth).

2X: I sold this fucker, I don't want a mediocre 35t laserboat.

4X:
2x LPL
XL 255

Again, strip 6pt from the left arm. The quirks are what make this gold, specifically the -30% laser duration, which gets the LPLs down to 0.44s firing duration. That means that your full 22 damage alpha is concentrated on a single component in the vast majority of situations. Great for backstabbing, great for legging lights, great for burning down priority targets, great for popping damaged 'mechs in the lategame.

Huginn:
2x SRM4+Artemis
2x MG
4t SRM ammo
1.5t MG ammo
XL 280

Once again, strip 6pt from the left arm. The Huginn only really does one thing, but it does that thing exceptionally well. The missile quirks are absolutely bonkers, and SRM4s are just the right size to leave room for ammo and the MG secondaries. This is one of a handful of hero 'mechs that is beyond-doubt worth the price. Spend the early-mid game running around blasting people with SRMs, then close out polishing them off with the MGs and whatever SRM ammo you have left. 4t might seem like a bit much, but that's basically all you have, and you're mobile enough to stay alive for long enough to use it all. It's also still not enough to carry a game entirely solo; I've had matches with good teams where I was down to <200 rounds for the MGs with few/no wasted shots.
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Rince Wind

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #497 on: September 09, 2016, 05:25:37 pm »

I seem to have no luck with Ravens.They feel so sluggish, I can usually survive longer, do more damage and be more useful for capturing in my Locust.
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #498 on: September 09, 2016, 06:09:39 pm »

The missile quirks are absolutely bonkers, and SRM4s are just the right size to leave room for ammo and the MG secondaries. This is one of a handful of hero 'mechs that is beyond-doubt worth the price.

wuuuuuuuhh?

The Huginn is bad, and you should feel bad suggesting to someone they buy it. Like... it doesn't do anything better than the Oxide.

Please explain to me why the Huginn is good. I really, really don't get it.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 06:12:34 pm by Kanil »
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #499 on: September 09, 2016, 06:28:34 pm »

The missile quirks are absolutely bonkers, and SRM4s are just the right size to leave room for ammo and the MG secondaries. This is one of a handful of hero 'mechs that is beyond-doubt worth the price.

wuuuuuuuhh?

The Huginn is bad, and you should feel bad suggesting to someone they buy it. Like... it doesn't do anything better than the Oxide.

Please explain to me why the Huginn is good. I really, really don't get it.

It's good because I love Ravens and the 2X is shit so you need a third to round it out. Also the paintjob is fantastic. The Oxide is definitely more in-meta, but I dislike it for QP because although it's a better pure splat platform in a vacuum, it carries almost exactly the same amount of ammo for twice the number of launchers and is less versatile. Likewise, the Huginn has vastly superior quirks:

Huginn gets:
+20% range
+10% velocity
+25% cooldown
-15% heat gen

Oxide gets:
+10% velocity
+15% cooldown
-5% heat gen

With proper positioning on the Oxide you're more likely to be able to wipe someone out before they can react, but you're going to run dry on ammo a lot faster and don't have anything to back up your launchers. Yeah, in an equal-skill 1v1, Oxide probably beats Huginn every time. If you're picking a space-filler for FP you should probably go with something useful instead but the Oxide would be better than the Huginn. But in QP, where teams are unreliable at best and matches get drawn out, the Huginn has greater damage potential and more endurance. Oh, and if you mess with your build a bit you can also take jumpjets on the Huginn. It also has better structure quirks, so it's a bit more forgiving to play.
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #500 on: September 09, 2016, 06:58:09 pm »

I'm not sure I'd call those vastly superior quirks, honestly.

Range is of dubious value, considering you want to get into MG range as well. Obviously it helps, but by how much?
Velocity, they both have equal.
Cooldown requires you run SRM-4s, otherwise it's just 5% more. Whether you run SRM-4s or SRM-6s on the Huginn probably has something to do with how much face staring you do with the MGs.
Heat gen, well... you only have two heat producing weapons, your 'mech probably isn't that hot to begin with.
Structure wise, the Huginn has... 3 more points. Still technically more.

The numbers are bigger, but I don't think it's nearly enough to offset losing half your missile racks.

We do agree that it looks cool, though. That's reason enough to buy a 'mech.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #501 on: September 09, 2016, 09:28:14 pm »

Trust me, it runs hot. Between the 25% CD quirks, the skill, and the weapon module, you build up heat. I mean, it's no laserboat, but once you get to the point where you're circling people blasting them instead of poking, it helps.

It's very much a two-stage mech, as I hinted at. The SRM range and (relatively speaking, given the number of launchers) deep ammo supply is what you rely on early-game, poking away and trying to find good flanks. It's not really the "run up and backstab" sort of mech that the Oxide is--it doesn't have heavy enough alpha damage for that. Likewise, you don't use the MGs at all for a good chunk of the match, and you run pretty cool. Once there have been deaths, holes have opened up, people are more heavily damaged, then you run wild. That's where the heat gen, structure, and MGs come into play (as well as the longer-lasting ammo): you don't just blow the last of your SRMs and run around spotting, you get in and brawl, crippling and killing damaged enemies.

Definitely not a splat build in the sense that a lot of people are used to, and if you're trying to play it like that you're probably not going to have much luck. Also, never run SRM6es on the Huginn. The extra CD is nice, but the real reason for running SRM4s is that the mech just doesn't have room for a proper build with SRM6es. You have to skimp on something: either you take a slower engine (which means you die more easily, effectively), you run ammo-light (and thus face the same problem as the Oxide late except that you don't even have a respectable alpha to make up for it), or you drop the MGs (see: above).

If you were going to, I'd dump the MGs, run an XL 280, and take 5t of SRM ammo. But if you do that, you lose the versatility it has and neuter the unique aspects of how it plays in exchange for having a mediocre splat light with worse damage spread.

But yeah those glow lines are amazing. Easily my favorite skin in the game. Default main, darker orange outline, bright orange interior, the thing practically glows.

The 4X with dual LPL plays very much the same way, except that you never really stop playing the poke game even if your whole team bites it.
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #502 on: September 10, 2016, 12:24:51 am »

I just took mine out into the training grounds and doing everything I can to overheat, I still got of 17 rounds before shutdown, which takes like 30s -- way more time than you'd ever spend facing a target. Admittedly I don't have it elited, and it wasn't Terra Therma, but it's not a very hot 'mech, relative to most.

As for it's merit in killing already half dead 'mechs, well... it's not exactly high praise -- they're half dead, after all! I suppose waiting for someone else to peel the armor off is pretty much the only way you get your tonnage worth out of the MGs, but I'd just as soon not take a 'mech that has to use MGs to be useful.

Accordingly, the Huginn build I found to be least awful was the ASRM-12s. It's definitely not a 'mech I'd recommend, and probably would have sold if I hadn't spent MC on it. Since I haven't sold it, it easily takes the prize for worst 'mech I still own (but not the worst I've ever driven.) If MGs ever get buffed, I might even be happy to still own it.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #503 on: September 10, 2016, 06:31:13 am »

I suppose my perspective's different because I've had more matches than I can count where it's down to 5-6 on each side, most with a lot of armor stripped, and I was able to run around sawing through them fast enough to not take much damage back. MGs and their crits are still stupid-good as long as you aren't the sort of moron who tries to burn down armor with them, especially when you have a pair of really good SRM4s with just enough ammo left to cut into the critical components full of weapons/ammo.

Put another way, there's one type of 'mech that I never want to pilot: the pure ballistic/missile sort that goes for a big alpha build and then runs out of ammo when a good chunk of the enemy team is still alive. And that's what the Oxide comes off to me as. The closest I use to that is my Ilya Muromets, since I run that with the really old-fashioned chainsaw build (3x UAC/5, 3x ML), but in the end that still has the secondary lasers, and I take just enough ammo that I'm usually running out at about the same time that I run out of armor. I really, really prefer 'mechs with staying power, that can be fully useful from the first shot to the end of the match.

e: Basically, I see it like this re: damage: There are two competing paradigms, the alpha and the sustained. An alpha-centered build frontloads your damage in exchange for more damage spread and greater penalties on misses and partial misses (more ammo wasted/heat built up for no return). A sustained-damage build focuses on doing more accurate and consistent damage over the course of the match, rather than occasional (and typically early) bursts. This is especially apparent with ballistic and missile weapons, since you're forced to choose between more/larger weapons and more potential damage (ammo).

It also ties into playstyle. If you're highly aggressive, the sort of person who wants to go in and punch someone in the face, you'll probably do better with an alpha build of some sort, since you're going to die faster and be (typically) fighting at closer ranges (which reduces the effects of damage loss and dispersion due to twitchy aim at little blobs of pixels). If you're a cautious player who likes to hang back and poke for most of the match, you're going to do better with a sustained build, since you're going to live long enough to output a good chunk of your potential damage and get to the point where people are damaged enough for you to brawl successfully.

Furthermore, it's linked to the sort of games you play in. If you're dropping as a group, alpha builds are almost universally better, since you'll have an organized group of people all focusing fire, which makes up for the main weaknesses of them (low damage uptime, getting alpha'd back). If you're dropping into total PuG matches, it's a crapshoot-yeah, you sometimes get those great matches where all the randoms work together well and are competent, but you get a lot more where you need to do tons of damage to many targets and survive for a long time in order to carry a mediocre-or-worse team with no organization.

Take the ultimate extremes: a Direstar, and a Locust with a single small laser. The Direstar has a massive, terrifying alpha that can one-shot almost any mech... but it only gets one shot. If you miss or fail to kill, you're worthless. Even if you get a kill, you just traded an assault for a lighter mech (since most other assaults don't mount IS XLs and can survive the alpha to the CT). In any case, you're essentially saying "I will remove one enemy mech from the game and rely on my team to win a still-even match." That doesn't work out well in QB. It's why the Direstar and Bansheestar are derpy troll builds rather than serious ones.

Now take that Locust with the single SL. It has absolutely shit damage. It will take a lot of shots just to equal the single Direstar alpha. But if it's played with a good mix of caution, aggression, and a little luck, it can end up doing superior damage and lasting long enough to meaningfully impact the game. But, obviously, if the LCT pilot fucks up, it comes off even worse than the Direstar.

It's pretty evident where my preference lies, at any rate. I'm the sort of person who runs their dual AC/2 BJ-1 with 7 tons of ammo and usually survives long enough to use it all (barring a fast victory).

As an aside, the reason I feel that strongly about the Huginn and its backup MGs is exemplified by a match I had not too long ago. We ended up in a 3v5, everyone had cored components, and I had just used the last of my SRMs, leaving me with two MGs and 1500 ammo for them. Past that point I got four kills (three most-damage-dealt) and functionally won the game for us. If I'd been in an Oxide, not only would I have been useless in that situation, I would have been useless well before it because my ammo would have been depleted more quickly. Running a high-alpha low-endurance build is an implicit statement that you don't think you can/don't want to have to carry, because it's suited for organized play and flashy kill-secures rather than hoisting the weight of your entire lance.

--

Completely unrelated: Big two-week FP event. Win a ZEU-9S2 + MB and a bunch of warhorns, or an EXE-C + MB and a bunch of other warhorns if you're a clanboy. Also 150 MC, cockpit items, 1.2m C-Bills, and a pile of GXP.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 12:56:39 pm by Flying Dice »
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #504 on: September 10, 2016, 04:05:50 pm »

Running a high-alpha low-endurance build is an implicit statement that you don't think you can/don't want to have to carry, because it's suited for organized play and flashy kill-secures rather than hoisting the weight of your entire lance.

I guess I really don't agree with this statement, because if my Griffin, JagerMech, Mauler (or theoretical Oxide that I don't own) has run out of ammo, I have already carried the game and we have won. They might not all be dead yet, but they're outnumbered to the point that they cannot come back. Sure, I can't steal the last kill or two, but I've probably got about four already to my name...

But whatever, you like the Huginn, I think it's awful. You appreciate the MGs, I think they're the worst weapon in the game. We're probably not going to come to a consensus beyond "The Huginn looks great".
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #505 on: September 10, 2016, 04:15:43 pm »

There's no situation so good that your team won't fuck it up. That's the rule of thumb I operate under in QP, and it's why all my 'mechs are built to survive and keep doing damage until the match is over. If you're confident enough to do otherwise, more power to you -- I've seen teams with 6-0 leads lose games, so I'm not. It seems to work out well for me, at least, considering that in the preponderance of matches I'm on my team's top three for damage, score, and time alive.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


E: uuuuuu

Haven't played FP since before Scouting Mode, the 4x StreakCrow OpFors are making me cry. T.T
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 05:26:26 pm by Flying Dice »
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #506 on: September 10, 2016, 07:24:48 pm »

Haven't played FP since before Scouting Mode, the 4x StreakCrow OpFors are making me cry. T.T

The Streakcrows aren't as bad as your teammates that try to fight them with lights. That's what makes me cry.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #507 on: September 10, 2016, 08:02:58 pm »

Haven't played FP since before Scouting Mode, the 4x StreakCrow OpFors are making me cry. T.T

The Streakcrows aren't as bad as your teammates that try to fight them with lights. That's what makes me cry.

All it really takes is seeing someone take an IS light into scouting at all, honestly.  :P

Best outcome I've had was a match where we had a BJ-1 on Grim Plexus and camped the central hill with a clear shot at the last intel, that was a clean sweep (discounting the one where the clanboys had a DC and the forced early dropship came down right on us).

Invasion, of course, is the usual Company/understrength Trinary unit against IS PuGs. That's why FP is the exception to my rule, you usually don't live long enough to overheat once you're in the fight on IS. Kinda makes you wish FP pitted an IS Company against a Binary.
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Kanil

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #508 on: September 10, 2016, 08:04:47 pm »

Hey, the standard engine Locust on gather is a free 95%+ winrate. They have their place, but it's a very specific place.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Flying Dice

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Re: Mechwarrior Online
« Reply #509 on: September 10, 2016, 08:07:23 pm »

Well that's less light and more crotch-rocket, but fair enough.
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